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Horus Heresy Formations

 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:21 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
The only reason I'm really pushing on this here is because squiggleamp seems to be using these for NEGold, and he seems (to me) to be doing things incorrectly. He also often doesn't explain things clearly, thus I keep trying to get clarification.


Sorry :'(


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Mattman wrote:

Coming along nicely.
I have done all the Marine Companies and I guess about 3/4 of the Marine Supports. Stat wise I guess I am again about 3/4 through adjusting and adding to the army list. Guess I might be in a position to let you guys see the first drafts next week ;)

Matt



looking forward to seeing them


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:52 am 
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SquiggleAmp wrote:
@magnus,
Apologies it didn't read well that's why my wife normally checks my written work over for me. I understand the break system and I used my own terminology badly. I meant that the SUPPORT formations would have their own and the company (HQ and combat formations) would have a calculated break point from how they are constructed (amount of combat detachments and HQs /2 rounded up to the nearest whole number.
The additional tank is optional though it does mess with the break points value and anybody wishing to play with the list can take it or not. The list is being designed to in essence fight itself (I know I have never said this but I thought it would be clear from it being Horus Heresy)so any advantages are available to both sides. This is my first attempt at such a thing, I know it doesn't show ;).
I can see that it will also effect the VPs given for the formation it is quite variable and may cause an issue, though the player could work it out (divide by ten and round to the nearest whole number). I will however concede the point in favour of the simplicity it introduces and retract the mixed formations.
I am working on a document to show how to select and work out victory points, break points for the Company they will all be bound buy this and all affected when the value is reached.
This isn't a project that will be released into the NetEpic world as official just a fan project that I am sharing.

Again all feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

Squiggle


Ah, gotcha. Thanks, that clarifies several things. [An additional thanks to your wife for her proofreading efforts, they are appreciated.]

If the list is just fighting itself and not being used with other NEGold lists, then most of my arguments go right out the window. Feel free to price the Command Tank(s) as you wish, among other things. As both sides would be paying the same costs, it would be fair.

Actually, Victory Points are very straightforward. At least, they are in NEGold. It is a ratio of 1 VP per 100 points of the total, final cost of the formation, with 50 or 75 points rounding up to the next higher VP. (For example, a formation that costs 250 points gives 3 VP when it breaks.) The Break Point value of a formation does not affect the Victory Points themselves in any way, just when they are awarded to the foe.

Different people have different strengths. For example, I doubt I'd be able to do what you have done with the graphics. It's just not a talent I have, but you clearly do. Juggling numbers is one of my talents, so I try to help people with that where possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:34 am 
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Cheers Magnus,
I have enjoyed your feedback, immensely frustrating at times but needed. You never know it might just become a standalone add on. If you are happy and for all the work you have done I would like to add you as a credit on the document?
I did A Level maths at school but dropped out because it was to hard and I couldn't be bothered, I just lay on cupboards and talked art and drew pictures of Space Marines.
Quick question do you always round up, for example the Baneblade is 225 pts would that be 3 VPs?

I love this forum its the first one I have had genuine feedback on and actually feel somebody is having a look at my stuff.

thank you all.


Squiggle


Last edited by SquiggleAmp on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:37 am 
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Right sort of heading in the right direction.

thanks to the input of Magnus and a it of feedback from others I have collated it all into one document

please feel free to have a look and give any feedback.

Thank you Squiggle

Horus Heresy Book 1 V 0.1

model costs are not finalised as of yet.

Magnus how does it work with a super heavy HQ. I imagine it is still free.


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H0RUS H3R35Y V 0.1.pdf [2.91 MiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:49 am 
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Aaaargh all of the page references are wrong please ignore they will be updated at v0.2 when any additional formations are added. :'(


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Lots of typos spotted and messed up formatting due for ammendment in V0.2


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:29 pm 
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@Mattman do you have any stats for the land raider super heavies Typhon, Spartan and Cerebus?


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Points values ending in 25 are rounded down for VP purposes. For example, 225 would be 2 VP.

Actually, Space Marines having access to Super Heavy vehicles at all is new to me. While they have had access to Titans, they just don't use anything in between Titan and normal Vehicle class. Well, not in 2nd or NEGold anyway.

That said, in the NEGold pricing structure, a Super Heavy (or higher pinning class) Command model costs the same as a normal model of it's kind, some have a 25 or 50 point reduction. It is not free. There just aren't enough models in the formation to absorb the cost.

Also, Company formations that consist of Titan class models work differently with respect to Break Point and Victory Points. These consider each Titan to have it's own Break Point and awards VP for the destruction of each Titan. Admittedly, you had not yet asked about Titans, but you should be as this is Epic scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Hi Magnus,
VPs to be amended on super heavies.

Space Marine Legions make use of many super heavies, they pretty much had all they needed. They did the primary fighting and the Imperial Army (Guard) did the garrisoning of planets with a little of the fighting (I'm not ready to open the Imperial Army can of worm just yet).

Thanks for the answer on the HQ for super heavies it makes sense. I think no reduction is a fair option they also have a better morale value 2 not 3 as they are crewed by marines, I imagine quite a points hike.

Titans, well I've included them at the back of v0.1 so they are being included. For the moment I took the points and stats straight from the Mechanicum rulebook. At the moment they have a bit part but in time I am hoping to move on to this at a later date, got some holidays coming up and the wife is away at work.
Would the Titans work to the same set up as the Thunderhawk formations?


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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:46 am 
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Good point about the Morale difference for the Super Heavy tanks. Because of that, you might want to increase each one's cost by 10%, which should work out to an increase of +25 for any tank with a value below 375. You don't necessarily have to, but it would represent their higher morale vs the Guard version should you ever work that list up.

Each individual Warlord or Reaver, or each pair of Warhounds, should be it's own formation with no options to add more. Well, unless Titans are significantly more common during the Heresy era than during the 40K era, which they might well be. I'd put them in as a Special formation, or in your terms, as a "Battalion Support" choice. While you *could* have a Company of Titans along with Marines, in my experience that has never happened, so it would probably be best to do so in their own document with their own lists of Support choices. However, since you are essentially making your own custom setting, do what feels right to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:34 pm 
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Thanks I'll make the increase to the Super Heavies cost.

MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Each individual Warlord or Reaver, or each pair of Warhounds, should be it's own formation with no options to add more. Well, unless Titans are significantly more common during the Heresy era than during the 40K era, which they might well be. I'd put them in as a Special formation, or in your terms, as a "Battalion Support" choice. While you *could* have a Company of Titans along with Marines, in my experience that has never happened, so it would probably be best to do so in their own document with their own lists of Support choices. However, since you are essentially making your own custom setting, do what feels right to you.


With regards to Titans I've put them into the Chapter Support Category, Most of the Space Marine Legions Primarchs could call on titan Legions many had them directly under there command as part of the expeditions. so I felt that having them in chapter support would be better as only the Primarch of a Legion would allocate that resource to a company. when Titan Legions was released the Mechanicum companies could be used as allies for the Imperial factions so you could have Space Marine Companies on the battlefield alongside a Warlord Titan Battle Group

From Lexicanum:

Legio Audax

The Legio Audax (also known as the Ember Wolves) were a Traitor Titan Legion that sided with Horus during the Battle of Isstvan III.[1a]
It was known for its close connection with the World Eaters, having served with them in the Great Crusade as part of the 13th Expeditionary Fleet.[1b]

Originally, the Legion was a small force comprising only Scout-class Titans. Nonetheless, the Legion quickly gained a savage and dangerous reputation much like their World Eater allies. This savagery soon evolved into loyalty to Angron over the distant Collegia Titanica.[1b]

1: The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal
1a: pg. 56
1b: pg. 96

With regards to the build of the titan legions there has been some change as the attached image of a Demi-Legio shows. Resource allocation doesn't seem to be so rigid as per SM 2nd. It will take a lot of digging around to find a balance for the force.

This is in no way my own setting. I wish it was but unfortunately Forge World have the monopoly, I just can't afford all that resin crack they sell and felt Epic would do a far superior job. :).

@Mattman do you have any plans for platinum in regard to titan formations?

thanks

Squiggle


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War_Maniple_Red_Naga_Legio_Atarus.jpg
War_Maniple_Red_Naga_Legio_Atarus.jpg [ 439.37 KiB | Viewed 5463 times ]


Last edited by SquiggleAmp on Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Some nice work there ...

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Hi!

Cool!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Horus Heresy Formations
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Image of Titans is out of forge world books looking to use as a template for a formation.

Thanks Primarch as you can see Magnus has being helping massively with the points for the formations.

Legion 4 thanks ....


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