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SQUAT LIST Errata
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 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:01 pm 
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Hi, I searched in the NetEpic Rules section and did not find an errata thread for the Squat Army List, so here it is.

I hope it will be usefull.

Summary of Unit Statistics

Vehicules
- Ironshield : "All around Armor" could be in the armor column instead of Notes column

Superheavies
-  HearthLord : "All around Armor" could be in the armor column instead of Notes column

Praetorians
- Behemoth: unit description says "Destroy building" for the railgun weapon, Notes in the summary sheet says "Damage building". I think that a weapon that could destroy 1D3 shields and is penetrating + 3 could destroy a building on a single shot.


Points to be discussed:

Praetorian
- Hellbore: the Hellbore heavy bolters are 25cm/6+/0 whereas all other heavy bolters on others vehicules are 25cm/5+/0, it seems to be a mix between PD and HB profil, typo error or normal weapon description ? (Note that HB for the mole have the same caracs)

- Behemot: Behemot has no PD. I know that it has a bunch of heavy bolters (25cm/5+/0) but adding some PD could be fair (maybe 6 or 8).

Battlecars
- Skyhammer Battlecar: I think there's an error with the ack-ack missiles TSM. It's noted in the summary sheet TSM 0. But when I read the original profil in the original GW publication, it was noted TSM -2. When I think about it, I feel that an AA weapon with 0 TSM is "useless"... Maybe it's a typo, maybe not...so any help about this point would be cool.discussed below

HeavyArtillery
- GrudgeKeeper: As Zap123 noticed it, the HK Missiles are not noticed as one shot missile (whereas the 2 Hellion Missiles are noted one shot) and proposed to make them one shot. Obviously, I'm not sure that making HK missiles one shot is THE solution. Because once you've shot all the missiles, units have nothing more to do in the game (or just running to take some objectives or hiding behind a hill to prevent being destroying). A solution could be reducing the HK to 3 missiles but it would be necessary to change the unit description as it mentions that grudgekeeper has 2 batteries or HK missiles. Another solution should be : need one turn to reload a HK missile (if you launch 2 missiles in the first turn, you can launch only 4 missiles in the second turn and you'll be able the relaunch only 2 missiles in the third turn - those that were launched in the first turn and were reloaded in the second turn).



Thanks for all the future replies to this topic.




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zap123
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:38 am 
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The Grudgekeeper was meant to be all one-shot missiles (read the battle report vs. Slann on Netepic.org).  It is why they are Heavy Artillery....think Squat Deathstrike.  If they weren't single shot, you would have to revise the cost WAY up :).  I also think if anything the Grudgekeeper is already undercosted.

Skyhammer - Where was this originally published?  Do you have a copy?  Most flyers have fairly low armour so 0 TSM isn't useless, but -2 certainly isn't a problem if that was what they originally had.

Hellbore - I think all tunnellers had 6+ on their HBolters...I think this was deliberate...hard to shoot with all the dirt in their barrell maybe?

Behemoth - yup, it should Destroy Buildings IMO.  It has 10 H-Bolters so I think these are the PD (and better).  I'd just up the number of H-Bolters to 16 to match the Colossus's PD number and leave it at that.

- Also there is no "Shield Battlecar" in the stats.  I think it would be easier just to give the Hellworm a "Fireshield Battlecar" (change the name on P13 from Shield to Fireshield) so it can use the existing Land Train one.

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scream
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:33 am 
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Thanks zap for you reply :)

here is a scan of the original specialist land train battle cars:

link

About the grudgekeeper cost, it is obviously underestimated. I used the cost formula from NetEpic.org and try to find the "real" cost for this unit. As it was quite difficult to get the cost for single shot weapon, I also enter the stormblade in the table, and I finally found that by removing 4 point for each single shot weapon attack dice, I found a stormblade at 275 point and the stormblade company at 800 point so this -4 factor seems to be OK. I applied it to the GrudgeKeeper weapons (considering that all missiles were single shot) and the final cost was: 200 points for each and 600 points for a detachment of 3...Far away from the current 350 points ;)

So, would it be fair and accepted that:

- All GrudgeKeeper missiles are single shot
- GrudgeKeeper unit cost becomes 600 points

Eventually, it could be possible to make the grudgekeeper a superheavy with few PD that could come as a single unit or may be taken as a company.


I feel OK with adding few more HB to the Behemot.

FireShield for the Hellworm is OK for me too.

Just to know, who manages to Squat List Rule Book and can edit it ?




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zap123
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:45 pm 
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- Good catch on the Skyhammer then!

- Dunno about 600 for the Grudgekeepers....just sounds a little high for 3 non-Superheavies.  Probably not far off the mark though.  I'll never take them 'cause I think they are a bit too cheddary so I wont argue :)

I think I can get the source Squat stuff from OzT so I can edit the V5.0 book.  Don't know who is doing the Squat Gold book.....Primarch?

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scream
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Thanks for your reply;

For the grudgekeeper, it would be cool if we find a valuable cost for them.

I think we all agree that 350 is far too cheap, 600 seems a little bit excessive...450 and VP 6 could be something correct ?

Any squat player help/comment is welcome!

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zap123
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:35 am 
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450 and 7 VP sounds good....cheap enough to take, but risky :)

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scream
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:32 am 
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(zap123 @ Aug. 23 2007,06:35)
QUOTE
450 and 7 VP sounds good....cheap enough to take, but risky :)

Arf, sorry for the VP about the 450 points GrudgeKeeper, I have a huge squat army since many years but I'm still not able to compute correctly squat VP  :O

So here are the revisions for GrudgeKeeper:

- all grudgekeeper missiles are single shot
- grudgekeeper detachment cost is 450 points
- grudgekeeper detachment VP is : 7VP

If nobody is against these modifications, I'll put them in the first post.


To continue on the squat list, that could also deviate to IG, the tunnelers...We have the tunneler transports that still not have any profils...even for the huge Hellbore transport. If would be cool if wa can do something for them, I'm sad that some minis were released but "can not" be used in the game. I have some ideas for them, so if something was not already done for them, I can post them here.

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zap123
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:06 am 
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After thinking about the tunnellers back when we had the Imperial discussion, I think we should leave them alone. ?If you do stats for the transport vehicles, then you have to add them to company/detachment cards, and then change break points and VP costs. ?The Hellbore would be particularly bad as something that big would need to be a Praetorian with a template too.  I think we treat them like supply trucks...sure they present, but they have no bearing on the battle so we don't need to make rules for them.

I would love it if the Squats had a Mole company like the Imperials though....getting enough Termites for a company is hard these days.

Also, we need to include the old Ironbreaker Company.




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Ulmo
 Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:10 pm 
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Hi, here are my comments on the Squat book :

  • The "Squat reroll all 1 (or 2)" should be better explained : are all 1 rerolled until 2+ is obtained ? Must all dice be rereolled simultanously (imagine I made 2+2 and need 5, I reroll the first and get 3, so I don't reroll the second one) ?
  • The vaious non-existing (Burner, Shortbeard, IronHammer, Grudgekeeper, etc...) units should be better described, ideally a proy should be indicated.
  • I read somewhere (incoming #?? and tactica) that the Squat tunnelers are more accurate than IG ones. It seems that this only apply to a particular clan. Maybe this clan should state D6*5cm instead of "half deviation".
  • Are the colossus and gyro supposed to keep coherency ? 6cm or 25cm ? Same question for the train. (and for the spedeer associated to some titans, but that's for another thread).
  • The Hellbore and Behemoth miss some PD. Is this intended ? In particular, this means that the Hellbore can not shoot at all if it is charged the turn it appears (unless some optional rule), as it is not on FF.
  • As long as Praetorians always shoot on FF, and don't double their move on charge, I don't understand what the "command" abylity is for. And what the "command ability lost" implies (bridge damage table).
  • Are the Squat subject to the "Tunneler company can only purchase tunnelers" rule ? How can one put alternate units into tunnelers (a burner detachment, some special character, ...).
  • This would imply that a tunneler company can't take any special card (apart of Hellworm, an optional and non-existing unit).
  • As tunnelers come automatically with troops, how does the rule "tunneler company must have support troops into tunnelers" apply ?
  • Why is the Cyclop optional anyway ? It has been an offical model for long, so the reason (overpowered ?) should be mentionned. Idem for the thunderfire, termite company or Gyrocopter Wing...
  • Already mentionned, but there is no company card with the leviathan. Intended or not ?
  • When is the damage table of the Overlord used : not is CC, but what for the Ork Doomdiver Magna-cannon ? And maybe other special units.
  • Is the "Command" ability of the GuildMasters shared with the full detachment ?
  • Most Praetorian tables contain errors :
    Behemoth :
    -An extra gray line.
    -A "Whell" case and no associated table.
    -The "Hull" table mention PD.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Behemoth isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Colossus :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon. Moreover, one of them is save 1+ insted of 2+, and I think (looking at the model) that the lowest-leftest weapon case of the side template should be the hull instead.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Colossus isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Cyclops :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Cyclops isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Hellbore :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    Leviathan :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    -The "Hull" table mention unexsting Bolters.


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    zap123
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:18 am 
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    (Ulmo @ Aug. 27 2007,22:10)
    QUOTE
    Hi, here are my comments on the Squat book :

  • The "Squat reroll all 1 (or 2)" should be better explained : are all 1 rerolled until 2+ is obtained ? Must all dice be rereolled simultanously (imagine I made 2+2 and need 5, I reroll the first and get 3, so I don't reroll the second one) ?

    - Ok, clarified to once per turn.

  • The vaious non-existing (Burner, Shortbeard, IronHammer, Grudgekeeper, etc...) units should be better described, ideally a proy should be indicated.

    - The proxy lists were taken out of the army lists. ?It leaves it up to your imagination :)

  • I read somewhere (incoming #?? and tactica) that the Squat tunnelers are more accurate than IG ones. It seems that this only apply to a particular clan. Maybe this clan should state D6*5cm instead of "half deviation".

    - Done.

  • Are the colossus and gyro supposed to keep coherency ? 6cm or 25cm ? Same question for the train. (and for the spedeer associated to some titans, but that's for another thread).

    - No. ?Fixed.

  • The Hellbore and Behemoth miss some PD. Is this intended ? In particular, this means that the Hellbore can not shoot at all if it is charged the turn it appears (unless some optional rule), as it is not on FF.

    - The "Slag" template would protect the Hellbore (clarified the wording so this is clear).

  • As long as Praetorians always shoot on FF, and don't double their move on charge, I don't understand what the "command" abylity is for. And what the "command ability lost" implies (bridge damage table).

    - It means you have to place an order counter.

  • Are the Squat subject to the "Tunneler company can only purchase tunnelers" rule ? How can one put alternate units into tunnelers (a burner detachment, some special character, ...).

    - Yup. ?Rule says you can buy infantry that start the game in a Tunneler as support.

  • This would imply that a tunneler company can't take any special card (apart of Hellworm, an optional and non-existing unit).

    - Can't take any non Infantry/non Tunneler correct.

  • As tunnelers come automatically with troops, how does the rule "tunneler company must have support troops into tunnelers" apply ?

    - They have to start the game inside the tunneler.

  • Why is the Cyclop optional anyway ? It has been an offical model for long, so the reason (overpowered ?) should be mentionned. Idem for the thunderfire, termite company or Gyrocopter Wing...

    - Cyclops/Termite/Thunderfire no longer Optional. ?Gyros are because there are new variants.

  • Already mentionned, but there is no company card with the leviathan. Intended or not ?

    - Fixed

  • When is the damage table of the Overlord used : not is CC, but what for the Ork Doomdiver Magna-cannon ? And maybe other special units.

    - Work it out or roll a D6.

  • Is the "Command" ability of the GuildMasters shared with the full detachment ?

    - No

  • Most Praetorian tables contain errors :
    Behemoth :
    -An extra gray line.
    -A "Whell" case and no associated table.
    -The "Hull" table mention PD.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Behemoth isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Colossus :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon. Moreover, one of them is save 1+ insted of 2+, and I think (looking at the model) that the lowest-leftest weapon case of the side template should be the hull instead.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Colossus isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Cyclops :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    -The "Bridge" table mention "crew abadon vehicle" while the Cyclops isn't a transport unit.
    -The "Hull" table explicitely mention transported units.
    Hellbore :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    Leviathan :
    -The "Weapon" cases should be associated to the revelant weapon.
    -The "Hull" table mention unexsting Bolters.

    --Didn't fix the "weapon name" thingy...is pretty clear in all cases. ?All other errors now fixed.

    Thanks

    • Thanks for that. ?See above for responses.  Can you do the Ork book now :D




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    scream
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:56 am 
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    About:

    Q: And what the "command ability lost" implies (bridge damage table).
    A: It means you have to place an order counter.

    A good point about this, I thought it was something that came from the IG Leviatan profil that should have impacted the chain of command...maybe clarifying this point in the IG/CI tables too should be a good thing.

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    Ulmo
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:34 pm 
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  • As long as Praetorians always shoot on FF, and don't double their move on charge, I don't understand what the "command" abylity is for. And what the "command ability lost" implies (bridge damage table).

    - It means you have to place an order counter.
    • Still not clear. As Praetorian always shoot in the FF segment, and don't double their movement on charge, thay always have the Advance order.

  • When is the damage table of the Overlord used : not is CC, but what for the Ork Doomdiver Magna-cannon ? And maybe other special units.

    - Work it out or roll a D6.I'm sorry, but I don't understand your answer.

  • Is the "Command" ability of the GuildMasters shared with the full detachment ?

    - NoSo this ability is useless until all the bikes are dead ? Or can they have a different order while in the same detachment (meaning they can charge and shoot, or advance and shoot in FF) ?

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    zap123
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:47 am 
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    (Ulmo @ Aug. 29 2007,14:34)
    QUOTE
  • As long as Praetorians always shoot on FF, and don't double their move on charge, I don't understand what the "command" abylity is for. And what the "command ability lost" implies (bridge damage table).

    - It means you have to place an order counter.
    • Still not clear. As Praetorian always shoot in the FF segment, and don't double their movement on charge, thay always have the Advance order.

  • When is the damage table of the Overlord used : not is CC, but what for the Ork Doomdiver Magna-cannon ? And maybe other special units.

    - Work it out or roll a D6.
    • I'm sorry, but I don't understand your answer.

  • Is the "Command" ability of the GuildMasters shared with the full detachment ?

    - NoSo this ability is useless until all the bikes are dead ? Or can they have a different order while in the same detachment (meaning they can charge and shoot, or advance and shoot in FF) ?
    1- about the only effect.  Presumably a player would be clever enough to always place an Advance order, but who knows.

    2- It means that it is pretty much impossible to cover every interaction between weapons.  Either agree what happens with your opponent or roll a D6 and see who is "correct".

    3 - Not entirely useless....the Guildmaster could still make a double move if the detachment is on Advance.....maybe we just remove Command?

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    scream
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:48 am 
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    (zap123 @ Aug. 30 2007,02:47)
    QUOTE

    3 - Not entirely useless....the Guildmaster could still make a double move if the detachment is on Advance.....maybe we just remove Command?

    No, please, let this Command ability to GuildMasters.




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    zap123
     Post subject: SQUAT LIST Errata
    PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:10 pm 
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    Yeah, I agree.

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