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Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Juffo-Wup

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:08 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:10 am
Posts: 102
Location: BrisVegas, Australia

Hi everyone!

The original Tau list just didn?t feel right to me when I recently looked through it. ?It felt like it was sort of thrown together because we needed a Tau list (yes, I know I was involved with that). ?Since then I?ve looked hard at the Tau list and have made some changes to give the list a bit more polish, make it play a little smoother and to add in the newer units from both the E:A list and from the W40K Codex.

Here is the link to the updated list that I have created. ?Its still in its playtest stages, but the units I have playtested already seem to work better (IMHO) with these changes.

Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft\

(Scroll down and click on the 11 Tau Army Book v5.1 Draft.pdf link)

(If you don?t have access to the NetEpic Files list, please PM me and I will email you a copy)

For those of you who don?t wish to troll through the whole list, here?s a short list of most of the changes/additions:

- Altered the make up of Tau armies (to limit the number of Kroot Tau armies can field. ?Too many Kroot units overcomes the Tau?s weakness of low CAF).
- Added Guided Missiles Special Ability (updates and simplifies Seeker Missiles and adds two new missiles: Submunitions and Tracers)
- Added Drones Special Ability (AI, Inorganic, cannot capture/contest objectives)
- Edited Markerlights (Vehicles/cavalry can fire with other weapons, infantry cannot)
- Added Support Craft Special Ability (for Tau Praetorians, makes them easier to shoot at)
- Altered Fire Warriors detachments (from 6 stands to 4, points changed accordingly, this means that 1 Devilfish support card can carry 1 Fire warrior detachment).
- Altered Company Cards that have Fire Warriors to have new detachment sizes.
- Added higher points costs for ?Bonded? Companies/Support Cards
- Added Markerlights to Stealthsuits & made their Stealth still work out of cover; increased points to match.
- Added Battlesuit Cadre (each type of Crisis suit and Broadside Suit + Command).
- Added Recon Cadre (Piranhas and Tetras).
- Added Sniper Drones:
Drones must stay with Drone Controller. If controller dies, Drones are removed. Drones & Drone Controller Stealth still works out of cover.
Drones: Move: 10cm, Save: 6+, CAF:-1, Drones, Stealth;
Controller: Move: 10cm, Save: -, CAF:-2, Markerlight, Stealth, PD(1);
Drones: Weapons: Rail Rifle, 75cm, 1 Dice, 4+, -2TSM
Controller: Weapons: Pulse Pistol, 0cm, 0 Dice, No To-hit, 0TSM
Sniper Drone Detachment (Support)
2 Sniper Drone Stands & Drone Controller Stand, BP:Controller Stand, Morale:3, VP:1, Cost: 100
- Added Vespid Stingwings:
Move: 20cm, Save: None, CAF:+2, Jump Packs, Hard to Hit;
Weapons: Neutron Blasters, 35cm, 1 Dice, 4+, -1TSM
Vespid Stingwing Flight (Support)
4 Vespid Stingwing Stands, BP:2, Morale:3, VP:1, Cost: 100
- Added Stingray Missile Tank:
Move: 20cm, Save: 4+, CAF:+2, Skimmer;
Weapons: Submunition Missiles, 100cm, 2BP@, Varies, 0TSM; 12cm Template, Ignores Cover, Guided Missile
Stingray Missile Battery (Support)
3 Stingray Missile Gunships, BP:2, Morale:3, VP:3, Cost: 300
- Added Tigershark Railcannon Variant:
Move: 60cm, Save: 4+, CAF:+2, Flyer, Superheavy;
Weapons: Light Railcannons, 75cm, 2 Dice, 4+, -3TSM; Penetrating +1,
Burst Cannons, 35cm, 4 Dice, 4+, 0TSM;
AA Seeker Missiles, 75cm, 2 Dice, 4+, -1TSM; Guided Missile
Tigershark Strike Craft (AX-1-0 Variant) (Support)
1 Tigershark Strike Craft (AX-1-0 Variant), BP:Model, Morale: -, VP:4, Cost: 400
- Added Scorpionfish Superheavy Tank:
Move: 15cm, Save: 3+, CAF:+2, Skimmer (no Pop-up), Superheavy;
Weapons: Missile Pods, 50cm, 2 Dice, 4+, 0TSM;
Munitions Launcher (fires one type of the following missiles per turn):
Tracer Missiles, 100cm, 4 Dice, 4+, -3TSM; Penetrating +1, Guided Missile
Submunition Missiles, 100cm, 6BP, 4+, 0TSM; 12cm Template, Ignores Cover, Guided Missile
Seeker Missiles, 100cm, 6 Dice, 4+, -1TSM; Guided Missile
Scorpionfish Heavy Missile Gunship (Support)
Scorpionfish Heavy Missile Gunship, BP:Model, Morale: -, VP:4, Cost: 350
- Added Moray Assault Ship:
Move: 20cm, Save: Varies (Template), CAF:+6; Praetorian, Support Craft, 2 Deflector Shields
Weapons: Identical to the Manta except it is armed with either Railcannons OR Ion Phalanxes.
Moray Assault Ship (Special Card)
Moray Assault Ship, BP:Model, Morale: -, VP:6, Cost: 550
- Altered Manta Stats and Hit Template (previous template was too small compared to relative size of model).
- Increased Manta Cost
- Changed Vector Cards (flyer ability is way too good, changed to Jump Packs/FOTF and increased Move, added new weapons)

Please have a look through it and make any comments you see fit to.

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primarch

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:26 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

My thanks for taking care of this.

Primarch

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zap123

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:28 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Guess it's going to be me first ?

. ?I'm going through the full list by itself, without any reference to what has come before. ?Comments:

(much of the stuff on specific units is coloured by the fact that you also have to consider their effect in conjunction with (the now more prevelant) Markerlights.

- I like the change to the army construction rules. (page 4)
- Battlesuits - Not sure I like the anti-Stealth ability. ?Conversely, they should probably only occupy the space of 1 Infantry stand on transports....they are pretty small Walkers.
- Support Craft special ability seems a much better solution than Flyer for some of the Tau big stuff. (page 6)
- Gun Drones (p9). ?Why does a unit that takes damage from Gun Drones have to take a morale check? ?That effect is very powerful combined with a Drone with a ton of firepower and Deep Strike.
- Sniper Drones - pretty hefty firepower which is kinda harsh combined with "super stealth". ?I think maybe a 5+ to hit would be more appropriate. ?Also, I suggest the detachment morale should be - , not 3?
- Pathfinder Snipers - These are too good IMO. ?I don't think you can fix them without stuffing up the Sniper Drones though. ?Even a 5+ to hit would still be too good combined with the range, -2 TSM and "Super Stealth" on a unit with Sniper. ?At a minimum either the range has to come down to 50cms or they need to lose Sniper.
- XV15/25 Stealth Suits - these look undercosted to me....quite significantly. ?Too much firepower on too mobile a "super stealthed" Battlesuit unit.
- Vespids (page 10) - minor typo in there. ?Quite powerful, but balanced by rareity...looks good.
- Kroot Hunter - not a fan of these for similar reasons to the Pathfinder Sniper...25% chance at taking out a IG CHQ at 75cms is too good IMO. ?Given the fluff, I think these guys should be 50cms hitting on 4+ (e.g more accurate than Carnivore), but 75cm hitting on 5+ would probably be the better option to keep the Kroot ok as a standalone force. (and change the fluff to "longer ranged" rather than "more accurate"). ?Particularly scarey as there is a Company with 12 of them!
- Kroot Knarloc Raider - Same comments as previous apply.
- XV-88s - Good to see their accuracy reduced a bit, but they still have a massive amount of firepower....gotta be at least 100 points each I think. ?For the smart missiles, should the spotter have to give up their shot like an indirect fire spotter?
- Vehicles all look ok, though still not a big fan of the Arty piece

- Barracuda - yeah, from experience 250 was too cheap. ?300 is probably still a little light, but a good enough starting point for test.
- Vectors - wouldn't mind seeing these gone largely as they would introduce a weakness in the list, and they strongly go against the design philosophy of the Tau. I think this would be ok now the Tau have more numerous "fluff logical" big hitter options.
- Moray - looks pretty spot on....scary, but balanced.
- Manta - possibly still a twee cheap given the firepower (roughly equivalent to 4 Quake Cannon, 1.5+ Gatling Blasters (better to hit), and 1.5 Vulcan Mega Bolters (longer range, worse to hit)) but probably close to right.
- New Companies look good. ?Nice additional variety.

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Juffo-Wup

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:39 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:10 am
Posts: 102
Location: BrisVegas, Australia

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

Guess it's going to be me first ?

My guess you'll be the only one based on the last Tau topic

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zap123

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:49 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Enlightened self interest makes the Universe go round

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Juffo-Wup

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:34 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:10 am
Posts: 102
Location: BrisVegas, Australia

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

I'm going through the full list by itself, without any reference to what has come before. Comments:
(much of the stuff on specific units is coloured by the fact that you also have to consider their effect in conjunction with (the now more prevelant) Markerlights.

- I like the change to the army construction rules. (page 4)

I thought it was prudent. Tau with lots of Kroot defeats the purpose of making the Tau a CC-weak army.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Battlesuits - Not sure I like the anti-Stealth ability. Conversely, they should probably only occupy the space of 1 Infantry stand on transports....they are pretty small Walkers.

I haven't made any changes to this. The rules for Battlesuits are basically unchanged, I just streamlined them a little. The anti-stealth is based on the fact that they are supposed to have superior sensors, which I can understand. As to the transport capacity, the models are about the same size as a dreadnought. I can certainly see them taking up two infantry spaces per stand.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Support Craft special ability seems a much better solution than Flyer for some of the Tau big stuff. (page 6)

Yes. This was a change that had to happen.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Gun Drones (p9). Why does a unit that takes damage from Gun Drones have to take a morale check? That effect is very powerful combined with a Drone with a ton of firepower and Deep Strike.

That's based on their 40K "pinning" ability and I haven't changed them. What you need to remember about this is whether or not they will move and fire. If they are on First Fire, they will be very powerful but only have a 35cm range. If they are on Advance, its not quite so powerful. Yes, with Deep Strike its very good and I'm not sure they should have Deep Strike as it kinda defeats the purpose of the Tigershark Drone Carrier. I'm happy to drop Deep Strike.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Sniper Drones - pretty hefty firepower which is kinda harsh combined with "super stealth". I think maybe a 5+ to hit would be more appropriate. Also, I suggest the detachment morale should be - , not 3?

Yes. I agree with the 5+ to hit. I based the Rail Rifle on the Pathfinder Sniper gun, which is too good. I think it should be 5+ to hit, -1TSM. The Morale of 3 represents that they are remote controlled by a living Tau unit who could very well run away.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Pathfinder Snipers - These are too good IMO. I don't think you can fix them without stuffing up the Sniper Drones though. Even a 5+ to hit would still be too good combined with the range, -2 TSM and "Super Stealth" on a unit with Sniper. At a minimum either the range has to come down to 50cms or they need to lose Sniper.

I think they should come down to 75cm, 5+, -1TSM and see how they fare.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- XV15/25 Stealth Suits - these look undercosted to me....quite significantly. Too much firepower on too mobile a "super stealthed" Battlesuit unit.

Perhaps. I'd like to try them out a little before making them too expensive. I've already upped with cost by 100pts per detachment.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Vespids (page 10) - minor typo in there. Quite powerful, but balanced by rareity...looks good.
- Kroot Hunter - not a fan of these for similar reasons to the Pathfinder Sniper...25% chance at taking out a IG CHQ at 75cms is too good IMO. Given the fluff, I think these guys should be 50cms hitting on 4+ (e.g more accurate than Carnivore), but 75cm hitting on 5+ would probably be the better option to keep the Kroot ok as a standalone force. (and change the fluff to "longer ranged" rather than "more accurate"). Particularly scarey as there is a Company with 12 of them!
- Kroot Knarloc Raider - Same comments as previous apply.

I haven't done anything to the Kroot. Kroot aren't accurate shooters so I agree and will change them to 5+ to hit.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- XV-88s - Good to see their accuracy reduced a bit, but they still have a massive amount of firepower....gotta be at least 100 points each I think. For the smart missiles, should the spotter have to give up their shot like an indirect fire spotter?

Smart Missiles in 40K just ignore line-of-sight regardless, so I think having to have a friendly Tau unit have LOS in NetEpic is enough. Smart Missiles aren't that good anyway. Again, I'd like to try them out as is and see if they need to be up-costed.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Vehicles all look ok, though still not a big fan of the Arty piece

- Barracuda - yeah, from experience 250 was too cheap. 300 is probably still a little light, but a good enough starting point for test.
- Vectors - wouldn't mind seeing these gone largely as they would introduce a weakness in the list, and they strongly go against the design philosophy of the Tau. I think this would be ok now the Tau have more numerous "fluff logical" big hitter options.

Agreed on the Vector comments but the idea is also very cool. BIG Battlesuits is just such a cool concept. I'd like to see them stay but as an optional unit only and not a core unit.

(zap123 @ May 25 2007,04:28)

QUOTE

- Moray - looks pretty spot on....scary, but balanced.
- Manta - possibly still a twee cheap given the firepower (roughly equivalent to 4 Quake Cannon, 1.5+ Gatling Blasters (better to hit), and 1.5 Vulcan Mega Bolters (longer range, worse to hit)) but probably close to right.
- New Companies look good. Nice additional variety.

Yes. The Manta and Moray are hard to cost. They are very, very nasty units but can be fragile. These points costs are, as you say, a good starting point to work from and can easily go up from there.

I've nearly saved anough cash to order my Tau force and will be going nuts with the playtesting once they arrive. Squee!!!

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zap123

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:38 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia

- Taking away Deep Strike from Gun Drones should alleviate the problem. ?(I'm not au fait with 40K stuff much these days)
- Sniper stuff good...that makes them not too much better than Ratlings now so they are closer to existing precedent.
- Ok lets run the XV15s and 88s and see how they fare. ?The odd bargain unit is ok, though perhaps not the XV88

- Can we move Vectors to the Options Book, rather than an optional unit? ?This is probably the place for the way-out whacky stuff that is kinda cool but has no basis in fact or fluff. ?
I find our tendancy is to allow all optional units but no optional rules...

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Juffo-Wup

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:24 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:10 am
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Location: BrisVegas, Australia

Update: ?I've posted the most recent incarnation of the Tau rules in the NetEpic files folder: NetEpic Files Folder

A short list for changes from 5.1 to 5.2:

- Separation of Tau and Kroot lists into distinct armies.
- Refinement of Support Craft rules.
- Points adjustments on Hammerheads, Broadsides, Fire Warriors & Moray.
- CAF of Fire Warriors and Pathfinders dropped to -2 to compensate for points adjustment (there was much discussion on this on the Tactical Command forums).
- Gun Drones lose Deep Strike.
- Correction to Recon Cadre (it was two Pirhana squads and one Tetra, the intention was for one Pirahna and two Tetras based on Forgeworld products).
- Change of Barracudas to 2 per squadron from 3 (to suit Forgworld packaging, making it a little cheaper to buy a squadron).

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, there may be one or two more.

Any comments, suggestions and experiences are more than welcome!

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zap123

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:23 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
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- Should you still be able to buy Kroot support/specials for Tau companies now they are seperate armies? (P4)

- Support craft (P6). I would have thought that if these guys landed on something they should take a hit, or at least lose a shield....they're not drop pods.

- P12 last sentance - "fired" is missing the d.

Otherwise it looks pretty good. What's left to test?

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Juffo-Wup

Post subject: Tau Armylist 5.1 Draft

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:22 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:10 am
Posts: 102
Location: BrisVegas, Australia

(zap123 @ Jun. 19 2007,05:23)

QUOTE

- Should you still be able to buy Kroot support/specials for Tau companies now they are seperate armies? (P4)

- Support craft (P6). ?I would have thought that if these guys landed on something they should take a hit, or at least lose a shield....they're not drop pods.

- P12 last sentance - "fired" is missing the d.

Otherwise it looks pretty good. ?What's left to test?

I think its fair that the Tau be able to use Kroot Support Cards and Specials. ?It represents the Tau bringing a small Kroot contingent to a battle rather than a large company of them, something I think the Tau would do. ?remember that due to the instinctive orders for the Kroot, you'll need some Shapers to get them to do anything worthwhile, so that's 200pts you'll need from the start plus the cost of the Kroot unit you want.

As for the Support Craft, yes. ?They should at least lose a shield. ?I'll make the adjustment.

Thanks for picking up the typo. ?I thought I'd gotten them all but I swear they multiply when I'm not looking.....

EDIT: Changes made and file uploaded.

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