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The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:23 pm 
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hi folks,

another silly question from the darkangel:

if i take a techmarine, then i will use him to support any tank detachment. and because his abilitie to repair tanks is not used in front of the detachment, i place him behind the tanks. normally the enemy must first destroy the tanks and then he can kill my techmarine. but the techmarine is not the same pinning class, so the hq rules do not disposed to him. so my enemy will not shoot on my tanks, but on my techmarine first and then he could shoot relaxed on my tanks.

so please tell me how and why should i use the techmarine?
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primarch
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:36 pm 
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(darkangel @ Apr. 27 2007,08:23)
QUOTE
hi folks,

another silly question from the darkangel:

if i take a techmarine, then i will use him to support any tank detachment. and because his abilitie to repair tanks is not used in front of the detachment, i place him behind the tanks. normally the enemy must first destroy the tanks and then he can kill my techmarine. but the techmarine is not the same pinning class, so the hq rules do not disposed to him. so my enemy will not shoot on my tanks, but on my techmarine first and then he could shoot relaxed on my tanks.

so please tell me how and why should i use the techmarine?

Hi!

You out him into a supporting squad of tactical marines near the vehicles and the problem is solved.  :;):

Primarch

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darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:21 am 
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(primarch @ Apr. 27 2007,19:36)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Apr. 27 2007,08:23)
QUOTE
hi folks,

another silly question from the darkangel:

if i take a techmarine, then i will use him to support any tank detachment. and because his abilitie to repair tanks is not used in front of the detachment, i place him behind the tanks. normally the enemy must first destroy the tanks and then he can kill my techmarine. but the techmarine is not the same pinning class, so the hq rules do not disposed to him. so my enemy will not shoot on my tanks, but on my techmarine first and then he could shoot relaxed on my tanks.

so please tell me how and why should i use the techmarine?

Hi!

You out him into a supporting squad of tactical marines near the vehicles and the problem is solved. ?:;):

Primarch

yeah, that is a solution. but a must put him out of his rhino so that he can repair vehicels, right?
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darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:28 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 27 2007,19:36)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Apr. 27 2007,08:23)
QUOTE
hi folks,

another silly question from the darkangel:

if i take a techmarine, then i will use him to support any tank detachment. and because his abilitie to repair tanks is not used in front of the detachment, i place him behind the tanks. normally the enemy must first destroy the tanks and then he can kill my techmarine. but the techmarine is not the same pinning class, so the hq rules do not disposed to him. so my enemy will not shoot on my tanks, but on my techmarine first and then he could shoot relaxed on my tanks.

so please tell me how and why should i use the techmarine?

Hi!

You out him into a supporting squad of tactical marines near the vehicles and the problem is solved. ?:;):

Primarch

but what about a hq and his artelery...look at the guards..they need a hq...but because of the different pinning class you can shoot at the hq...to avoid ths i must put infantrie near by but then the infantrie is out of game at all...is this the sense of the hq-pinning class rule?
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Enderel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:57 am 
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Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's?  If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

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primarch
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:04 pm 
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(darkangel @ Apr. 28 2007,03:21)
QUOTE

(primarch @ Apr. 27 2007,19:36)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Apr. 27 2007,08:23)
QUOTE
hi folks,

another silly question from the darkangel:

if i take a techmarine, then i will use him to support any tank detachment. and because his abilitie to repair tanks is not used in front of the detachment, i place him behind the tanks. normally the enemy must first destroy the tanks and then he can kill my techmarine. but the techmarine is not the same pinning class, so the hq rules do not disposed to him. so my enemy will not shoot on my tanks, but on my techmarine first and then he could shoot relaxed on my tanks.

so please tell me how and why should i use the techmarine?

Hi!

You out him into a supporting squad of tactical marines near the vehicles and the problem is solved.  :;):

Primarch

yeah, that is a solution. but a must put him out of his rhino so that he can repair vehicels, right?

Hi!

Correct.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:06 pm 
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(Enderel @ Apr. 29 2007,05:57)
QUOTE
Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's?  If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

Hi!

I believe they get chimeras now, and Enderel makes an excellent point. Leave them in their vehicles when commanding artillery and they cant be targeted separately.

Primarch

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darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:51 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,16:06)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Apr. 29 2007,05:57)
QUOTE
Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's? ?If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

Hi!

I believe they get chimeras now, and Enderel makes an excellent point. Leave them in their vehicles when commanding artillery and they cant be targeted separately.

Primarch

no, that does not work. the rhino is only a command unit and no hq! if i put a hq stand in a rhino, then the rhino can be shoot as normal...see the meaning of command and hq unit in the core rules...

I would say tat the hq stand and the rhino should form a hq unit together...because i think so it was in sm2nd too...
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primarch
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:14 pm 
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(darkangel @ Apr. 29 2007,12:51)
QUOTE

(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,16:06)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Apr. 29 2007,05:57)
QUOTE
Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's?  If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

Hi!

I believe they get chimeras now, and Enderel makes an excellent point. Leave them in their vehicles when commanding artillery and they cant be targeted separately.

Primarch

no, that does not work. the rhino is only a command unit and no hq! if i put a hq stand in a rhino, then the rhino can be shoot as normal...see the meaning of command and hq unit in the core rules...

I would say tat the hq stand and the rhino should form a hq unit together...because i think so it was in sm2nd too...

Hi!

My understanding is that the vehicle that carries the HQ unit is also and HQ unit for the purposes of movement/orders and firing.

Primarch

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darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:28 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,22:14)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Apr. 29 2007,12:51)
QUOTE

(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,16:06)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Apr. 29 2007,05:57)
QUOTE
Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's? ?If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

Hi!

I believe they get chimeras now, and Enderel makes an excellent point. Leave them in their vehicles when commanding artillery and they cant be targeted separately.

Primarch

no, that does not work. the rhino is only a command unit and no hq! if i put a hq stand in a rhino, then the rhino can be shoot as normal...see the meaning of command and hq unit in the core rules...

I would say tat the hq stand and the rhino should form a hq unit together...because i think so it was in sm2nd too...

Hi!

My understanding is that the vehicle that carries the HQ unit is also and HQ unit for the purposes of movement/orders and firing.

Primarch

you are right and so do I...but then there have to be some changes in the rules...for example look to the page 26 in the maines army list. a tactical company consists of a marine HQ and a COMMAND rhino...and then look for the description of command units (page 10) and hq units (page 24) in the core rules...I know I am very fussy but I do not like things which give you room for discussions...rules must be clear and out of any question..what do you think?
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darkangel
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:37 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,22:14)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Apr. 29 2007,12:51)
QUOTE

(primarch @ Apr. 29 2007,16:06)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Apr. 29 2007,05:57)
QUOTE
Do the HQ's still get Rhino's or Chimera's? ?If so the HQ can stay with in that and be the same class as the artillery units.

We just tend to play it as there's lots of smoke on the battlefield and you can't really pick out commanders that well so pin point sniper shots to key characters is a no no, bit like Independent characters concept in 40k.

Hi!

I believe they get chimeras now, and Enderel makes an excellent point. Leave them in their vehicles when commanding artillery and they cant be targeted separately.

Primarch

no, that does not work. the rhino is only a command unit and no hq! if i put a hq stand in a rhino, then the rhino can be shoot as normal...see the meaning of command and hq unit in the core rules...

I would say tat the hq stand and the rhino should form a hq unit together...because i think so it was in sm2nd too...

Hi!

My understanding is that the vehicle that carries the HQ unit is also and HQ unit for the purposes of movement/orders and firing.

Primarch

another question: I can not find any advice if the preatorians ordinatus are hq and/or command units...normaly you find this information in the units summary but due to the atributes of the leviathan I can not find the hq and command notice too, but in the units description of the leviathan I can find the hq ability...so I am a little bit confused...sometimes it is shown there and sometimes not?
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loofnick
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:29 pm 
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(darkangel @ Apr. 29 2007,22:37)
QUOTE
another question: I can not find any advice if the preatorians ordinatus are hq and/or command units...normaly you find this information in the units summary but due to the atributes of the leviathan I can not find the hq and command notice too, but in the units description of the leviathan I can find the hq ability...so I am a little bit confused...sometimes it is shown there and sometimes not?

p36 core rules
"Special Rules: Praetorians
 Orders: Praetorians usually carry a large compliment of recon and intelligence apparatus which make them
able to react promptly to battlefield conditions. To reflect this all praetorian vehicles are considered Command
vehicles for purposes of movement and firing. Despite their fulfilling the headquarters role on the battlefield, they
never receive the Headquarters special ability and targeting protection ? they?re too big to fade into the background. "

Leviathan description will have the HQ thing mentioned, because of it's role as a Regimental HQ, which is in addition to the core rule.  I don't know whether this should also apply to IG Ordinatususususus's [Ordinati?] (as they lack unit descriptions in the Militarius book)?
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loofnick
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:54 pm 
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(darkangel @ Apr. 29 2007,22:28)
QUOTE
you are right and so do I...but then there have to be some changes in the rules...for example look to the page 26 in the maines army list. a tactical company consists of a marine HQ and a COMMAND rhino...and then look for the description of command units (page 10) and hq units (page 24) in the core rules...I know I am very fussy but I do not like things which give you room for discussions...rules must be clear and out of any question..what do you think?

I agree, it seems to be stated that these transport at best get the Command ability.  The HQ rule says it clearly "However, buildings and transports are not protected ? you may shoot at the building or transport normally, hoping to bring it down and kill the HQ inside."

To make this match the common perception of the rule, I guess either:

all the "Command" transports, want to be called "Command and HQ" on the cards; eg "2 Tactical CHQ stands, Command & HQ Rhino.

or better still, the Core rule should read that "transports provided as standard with a HQ unit automatically get the HQ ability".  And a similar provision for the Command rule as well.

What do you think?
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zap123
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:31 am 
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Seems like a storm in a teacup.  If the enemy gets units close enough to the Arty company that the HQ is the closest infantry stand then of course they should be able to shoot them....sheesh.  I don't think a special rule to give Company HQ transports the "HQ" ability is really necessary....except possibly for Marines.  If a HQ unit is silly enough to stay mounted they should get shot.

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loofnick
 Post subject: The HQ-Rule due to Techmarine
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:39 am 
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(zap123 @ Apr. 30 2007,01:31)
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Seems like a storm in a teacup.  If the enemy gets units close enough to the Arty company that the HQ is the closest infantry stand then of course they should be able to shoot them....sheesh.  I don't think a special rule to give Company HQ transports the "HQ" ability is really necessary....except possibly for Marines.  If a HQ unit is silly enough to stay mounted they should get shot.

My teacups are perfectly calm. Can't we just leave the poor cups out of this?       :;):  

Just seems to me that the vehicle having HQ makes it more consistant, and follows what many people would expect.

The rule also says  "An HQ unit may not be fired at unless  ... or is more than 10 cm from things in their pinning class".  So your infantry screen must be within 10cm as well to provide cover.  That makes perfect sense of course.  But the real danger is for foot troops, with the IG HQ targetable from anywhere unless you leave a 100+ point unit of bodyguards very close-by (might as well have them as standard, as they would always be needed).  At least if vehicles are HQ, they can hide in them, put their feet-up and make a cup of tea like proper officers.

Of course the tech-marines standing next to tanks, makes him a bit pointless in most tank situations, and I wouldn't waste a tactical detachment to look after him.  But you'd really have to do something more drastic to change that (might have something to do with teacups as well).
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