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Eldar Stuff
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Author:  zap123 [ Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
Just some working notes.

- Pulsar/Pulse Laser thingy
- Revenant costs
- Command????

P3 - need to clarify support for Craftworld Host cards.

- Harlequins - It would be good if you can take Harlequins as your main army (with the rest from the standard list), regardless of who you're fighting. ?I know I've read GW fiction with Harlequins fighting IG, and more recent stuff of them fighting DE and Kroot (these may have been fan though). ?I'm sure there must be recorded history of them fighting Orcs/Necron/Tau/Bla Bla. ?Still a single Masque and only Harlie support, but it could be a Harlie lead army.

- Craftworlds - want to add any of the newies? ?Yme-Loc (sp?) with lotsa tanks?
- Biel-Tan - I like the Phoenix host, but just adding Command and HQ to the stats doesn't cut it....Exarchs are far more capable than the "Phoenix Lords". ?Maybe standard aspect stats + "Command, HQ, 5+f save and 8 CAF" ? ?Would leave the cost as is.
- Saim-Hann - should make it a rule that they don't get Phantoms (or they are unique or some other form of restriction) rather than fluff. ?Compensated by getting detachment cards of Revenants (maybe with a discount?).
- Knights (P14) - listed Support Card restrictions doesn't match army list at back....redundant anyway so remove. ?Would be nice if they had some form of army commander...."Lord in Towering Destroyer" ala Knight Baron?
- Exodites ?- Like these. ?Desperately need to use Allies to be viable, but the Knight 50% rule helps here. ?Maybe make one of the Travois options AA? ?Baron needs Command. ?Maybe a Walker host, with a mix of 2 each Scout and War Walker detachments (give us a reason to dust off and use them :) ).  Ranger should be changed to Pathfinder.
- Dark Eldar - love to hear from people who've tried the list. ?Looks really cool, but they appear to be somewhat over-costed in general. (pay too much for speed and not enough discount for fragility). ?This is all hypothetical. ?Raider Cabal looks too expensive compared to Defender Warhost. ?Wych Cabal might be ok. ?Reaver Cabal too high, Ravager might be ok. ?Interesting....might have to think about putting all those excess Eldar to use :)
Harlies - Be good to have the option of Brightlance equipped Death Jesters with 75cms range, or just beef up the range as is to reflect the presence of them. ?Harlequins aren't Elite?

Option of Avatar, Farseer (with Command!) or Autarch (Exarch + Command and Inspirational?) as army commander for Craftword or Standard list forces?

125/175/225 point units. ?Arghh! ?This happens all the time and insults my sense of symetry when I have a 3975 point army, or worse 4025! ?Give every army list a token 25 point unit. ?Musician stand (CAF0, no gun, Inspirational), Eldar Ghost Warrior stand (CAF1, Shurikan pistol, Stealth, Sniper, HtH), Spirit stone collector, Wraithbone polisher....something. ? :laugh:
Author:  primarch [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
Hi!

I'm out until the 9th, so I'll comment fully when I get back.

Primarch
Author:  zap123 [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
I dusted off the old Eldar 40K second ed codex to do some more background researching and the stuff on the Phoenix Lords pretty much makes the Biel-Tan Phoenix Host a bit of a nonsense.  If I took a Phoenix Host with 3 detachments of Avengers there'd be 3 Avenger Phoenix Lords, when each shrine only ever has one.  Maybe should be recast as an Aspect Warrior host.  Cost 200 + the cost of any three Aspect Warrior squads.  Each Aspect Warrior Squad gets one Exarch stand with normal stats, but inheriting the move and mode of the the Aspect Warrior Squad, ie. Exarch added to Warp Spider detachment gets their warp jump ability, Exarch added to a Shining Spear detachment gets a 30cm move and Skimmer (he's on a jetbike) etc.  Maybe have one Phoenix Lord as Host Commander and then it could keep the name....
Author:  primarch [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff

(zap123 @ Apr. 04 2007,00:32)
QUOTE
Just some working notes.

- Pulsar/Pulse Laser thingy
- Revenant costs
- Command????

P3 - need to clarify support for Craftworld Host cards.

- Harlequins - It would be good if you can take Harlequins as your main army (with the rest from the standard list), regardless of who you're fighting.  I know I've read GW fiction with Harlequins fighting IG, and more recent stuff of them fighting DE and Kroot (these may have been fan though).  I'm sure there must be recorded history of them fighting Orcs/Necron/Tau/Bla Bla.  Still a single Masque and only Harlie support, but it could be a Harlie lead army.

- Craftworlds - want to add any of the newies?  Yme-Loc (sp?) with lotsa tanks?
- Biel-Tan - I like the Phoenix host, but just adding Command and HQ to the stats doesn't cut it....Exarchs are far more capable than the "Phoenix Lords".  Maybe standard aspect stats + "Command, HQ, 5+f save and 8 CAF" ?  Would leave the cost as is.
- Saim-Hann - should make it a rule that they don't get Phantoms (or they are unique or some other form of restriction) rather than fluff.  Compensated by getting detachment cards of Revenants (maybe with a discount?).
- Knights (P14) - listed Support Card restrictions doesn't match army list at back....redundant anyway so remove.  Would be nice if they had some form of army commander...."Lord in Towering Destroyer" ala Knight Baron?
- Exodites  - Like these.  Desperately need to use Allies to be viable, but the Knight 50% rule helps here.  Maybe make one of the Travois options AA?  Baron needs Command.  Maybe a Walker host, with a mix of 2 each Scout and War Walker detachments (give us a reason to dust off and use them :) )
- Dark Eldar - love to hear from people who've tried the list.  Looks really cool, but they appear to be somewhat over-costed in general. (pay too much for speed and not enough discount for fragility).  This is all hypothetical.  Raider Cabal looks too expensive compared to Defender Warhost.  Wych Cabal might be ok.  Reaver Cabal too high, Ravager might be ok.  Interesting....might have to think about putting all those excess Eldar to use :)
Harlies - Be good to have the option of Brightlance equipped Death Jesters with 75cms range, or just beef up the range as is to reflect the presence of them.  Harlequins aren't Elite?

Option of Avatar, Farseer (with Command!) or Autarch (Exarch + Command and Inspirational?) as army commander for Craftword or Standard list forces?

125/175/225 point units.  Arghh!  This happens all the time and insults my sense of symetry when I have a 3975 point army, or worse 4025!  Give every army list a token 25 point unit.  Musician stand (CAF0, no gun, Inspirational), Eldar Ghost Warrior stand (CAF1, Shurikan pistol, Stealth, Sniper, HtH), Spirit stone collector, Wraithbone polisher....something.   :laugh:

Hi!

As far as a harlequin army, I believe it has been mentioned before, but perhaps no one has sat down and made one. SO if someone does we could certainly include it.

Add as many new craftworlds with rules as needed. I see no problem with that.

I got no problem with tweaking the phoenix lords.

Saim-Hann restriction sounds good. Definitely give a revenant discount.

The dark eldar are pretty experimental so tweak as you see fit.

Thats a good idea with the towering destroyers, they are the leaders after all. Make the appropriate changes.

Your exodite recommendations sounds good. Anything to get people to use more scout and warwalkers is good.  :D

Option of Avatar, Farseer (with Command!) or Autarch (Exarch + Command and Inspirational?) as army commander for Craftword or Standard list forces?


125/175/225 point units.  Arghh!  This happens all the time and insults my sense of symetry when I have a 3975 point army, or worse 4025!  Give every army list a token 25 point unit.  Musician stand (CAF0, no gun, Inspirational), Eldar Ghost Warrior stand (CAF1, Shurikan pistol, Stealth, Sniper, HtH), Spirit stone collector, Wraithbone polisher....something.

True, I bugged by it too. The "extras" at 25 points sound pretty cool. I'd implement them as optional, but I would definitely add them.

Primarch
Author:  zap123 [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
The Harlequin Masque already exists in the NetEpic 5.0 book. ?It's pretty decent, (though I suggest Elite for Harlies in general and add a Death Jester troup), but has the "can only take when fighting Chaos or Necrons" restriction which I can't find any fluff justification for.
Author:  primarch [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff

(zap123 @ Apr. 11 2007,01:46)
QUOTE
The Harlequin Masque already exists in the NetEpic 5.0 book.  It's pretty decent, (though I suggest Elite for Harlies in general and a 75cm range on Death Jesters), but has the "can only take when fighting Chaos or 'Nids" restriction which I can't find any fluff justification for.

Hi!

The really old fluff had harlies as a force versus chaos. But I don't see any barrier in changing it a bit to make a more viable army.

Primarch
Author:  zap123 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
I went back to the old, old WH40K compendium with the original Rogue Trader/40K Harlequinn list and even that has them fighting Imperial Guard in the flavour text.  I also checked the first WH40K Eldar Codex and there is no similar restriction there.  As best I can figure it was actually the SM2 restriction on the Harlequinn special card that must be the origin, but I cant find any fluff to support it.
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff

(zap123 @ Apr. 12 2007,07:08)
QUOTE
As best I can figure it was actually the SM2 restriction on the Harlequin special card that must be the origin, but I cant find any fluff to support it.

That's SM2 legacy, true.

Personally I think Harlequins don't fight epic scale engagements by themselves; they ally with Eldar (or even Dark Eldar if fighting Chaos) to get more firepower.

So how about just expanding the 4 stand detachment to a full company-sized masque? It would still be a special card, of course.
Author:  zap123 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
The Masque already exists in the 5.0 book.  It is 3 detachments of Harlies (4 stands each) + the Great Harlequin and his Venom.  Support is all there as well.  You can only ever have one Masque.  This is all good, nothing broken, needs no change.

However, as it currently stands they can only ever be taken as an Ally (by anyone who can ally with the Standard Eldar list), and only vs Necrons (not 'Nids...sorry) or Chaos.  This is what i'd like to see changed.  Just remove the restriction "vs Necron or Chaos" if they are taken as allies for any Standard Eldar, Craftworld, Exodite or Eldar Knight army.  That's all.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
Agreed, chuck the "vs Necron or Chaos" restriction.
Author:  primarch [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
Hi!

I agree, chuck the restriction.

Primarch
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff

(zap123 @ Apr. 12 2007,13:50)
QUOTE
The Masque already exists in the 5.0 book.  It is 3 detachments of Harlies (4 stands each) + the Great Harlequin and his Venom.  Support is all there as well.  You can only ever have one Masque.  This is all good, nothing broken, needs no change.

Ah, it seems it's been too long I browsed through Net Epic armybooks.  :blush:
Author:  zap123 [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
There are a lot of them to read these days :)
Author:  primarch [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff

(Mojarn Piett @ Apr. 16 2007,03:45)
QUOTE

(zap123 @ Apr. 12 2007,13:50)
QUOTE
The Masque already exists in the 5.0 book.  It is 3 detachments of Harlies (4 stands each) + the Great Harlequin and his Venom.  Support is all there as well.  You can only ever have one Masque.  This is all good, nothing broken, needs no change.

Ah, it seems it's been too long I browsed through Net Epic armybooks.  :blush:

Hi!

You and me both. After ten years the editions are starting to blur in my mind.

I love that people like zap and oztenaka are doing this, its too easy for those of us who have been in this too long to miss easy mistakes. Or create non-existent mistakes....  :;):

Primarch
Author:  zap123 [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Eldar Stuff
Dark Eldar time:

Simple one - Talos has no Army Card.  I'd guess 6 for 250?

Special Abilities Dodge and Gladiator - no description of what these do.  I'm guessing Dodge is supposed to be a Fixed save in Close Combat, but the Archon description says 4+ and the Wych description says 5+.  Suggestion, drop Gladiator from the Beastmaster and just put special (for his triple charge).  For the former, how about adding in the DE special rules: "Dodge - Due to their years of experience in the Gladiatorial Arenas of Cammorragh this unit is granted a fixed 5+ save in Close Combat."  Fix the Archon to match this.

- Warrior Cadre - Comparing to Eldar list, I don't think the Raider is as good as a Falcon (lower save, lower CAF, OTV), so I'd suggest these drop to 250, leading to:
- Raider Cabal - I think 850 is about right here.  Certainly not 100 points better than a Defender Warhost IMO.
- Wych Cult - Dont really think a mix of CC troops and Raiders works well as a detachment, but the points look ok.  Be cool if these were split like the Guardian and Falcon hosts.  
- Reaver Kabal - Combat Drugs are a complication, but really should only be 550, or maybe 600.

Be nice to have at least one other Company choice (particularly given the Wych Cabal isn't all that desirable IMO), or just do the split option for Wyches and Raiders.  

Wych Assault Cadre - 6 Wych stands - 200 points
Wych Assault Cult - Dracite+Wych+Command Raider; 3 Wych Assault Cadre - 650 points

&

Raider detachment - 3 Raiders - 125 points
Raider Kabal - 3 Raider detachments - 350 points

Maybe:

Dracon, Incubi stand +  Command Raider
2 Hellion Cadre
1 Scourge Cadre
750 points?

- Dark Warlock - really needs to be removed given the background.
- Shadow Spinner - Should change Dodge to Hard to Hit in the table and template to match the actual description.

They have decent troops, a (smallish) fast attack company, ok Tanks, AA and Air.  Titan is a bit lightweight, but in keeping with the DE concept.  Should make a reasonable army.
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