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Fluff vs. Lists

 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:11 am 
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There seems to be a lot of talk about army lists, what does and does not need lists. But I thought the original idea was to work on the background. Does the background need to alighn to the lists only?

Why can't we have something in the fluff that is not in the lists?

Necrons for example, why can't we have them in the fluff without thinking they need to be in the lists?

What is it we are about to do, modify the background or make official NetEpic lists?

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:16 am 
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Hi!

Modify or "unify" the background for netepic. We need not make lists for everything in the background, just make our own take on the 40k universe.

Since you started this we might as well go full blast.

See next post....

Primarch

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:22 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 20 2005 June,18:16)
See next post....

Primarch

I am looking master, I am looking...

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:54 am 
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Hi!

What follows is an outline, a timeline of sorts. All input is welcome and needed. Whatever comes of this gets posted on the netepic list for more commentary.

Age of Legend

Lost in the mists of time is the era of the enlightened age of technology. Man was confined to Terra and the Sol System due to his lack of faster than light travel. As is man's legacy it is marked by internecine warfare over the Sol Systems limited resources. Mars is colonized and terraformed. The Emperor is born in pre-history and keeps a low profile during this era. He guides from behind the scenes. This era comprises about 10,000 years. From the development of agriculture to just before warp travel.

The Golden Age of Technology

Man reaches his zenith. With the discovery of warp travel man casts away the shackles of the sol system and expands into the known galaxy. This the warp is not yet tainted with human emotions jumps are longer and more accurate. The Astronomicon doesnt exsist yet and is not needed. During this time all great human inventions are standarized in what would be later known as "standard template constructs". No enviorment, however cruel, can withstand the changing powers of the STC's.

Over the millenia man's genetic makeup alters to suit different enviorment. On high gravity worlds man becomes shorter, stockier. Although the cultural characteristics of "squats" would not form until thousands of years later. Smaller humans, later known as ratlings also evolve on worlds where resources are scarce and need to hide from large predators is a must. Large "ogrish" human evolve on worlds or little to no resources and being larger and more powerful means eating rather than being eaten.

Contact with aliens occurs. Contrary to what some historians think the first contact was with Orks. Violent contact. Humanities overwhelming resources and technically skill almost make orks extinct in most systems. Man did not however count on the orks methods of spore reproduction and the virtual impossibility of erradicating them once seeded. In a situation akin to modern day roaches, the more effective the methods of killing orks became the more resistant the survivors were. In a real sense humans have driven the orks evolution to their current state of the green plague that they are.

Contact with the Eldar can soon after. But even then it was infrequent and mysterious. They looked down on man, insulated by their great superior technology and webway. Even with mans resources they steered clear of the eldar systems knowning that oblivion awaited those forces who dared enter.

During this era the warp commenced to pollute itself heavily with human emotions. Warp travel, once attainable by any trained pilto became difficult. It came to a degree that only humans with certain mutations could accurately navigate the polluted warp. These became the navigator houses. Soon only humans with the "navigator" gene could guide ships safetly through the warp.

This golden age came to an abrupt end with a disturbance in the warp which created huge storms that all but block warp travel. Sol system was cut off as well as many other systems. Only thousands of years later was the cause thought to be someway related to the fall of eldar civilization.

The Emperor kept guiding from behind the scenes. Only towards the end of the Golden Age did he intervene more directly to bastion himself on Terra and wait out the storm....

This age lasts over 20,000 years.

The Age of Strife

Human society disintegrates. Systems are cut off from supplies either die of or devolve. Each community seeks ways to adapt. On the high gravity worlds the altered human "squatish" humans learn to live in tight knit groups and price technology over all else. A guild mentality pervades over society until it becomes the focal source of allegience. Due to many generations of living on atmosphere-less asteroids and rock-worlds reproductive capacity decreases, making family loyalty and protection achieve a "cult" status. During this time certain individuals achieve psychic sentience in the form of remarkable longevity.

Due to the warp contamination the first reports of "beast-men" appear. They usually are quite hostile to man, its progentior and are little more than beast in manner. Albeit cunning beasts.

The larger human variants, ever preoccupied with food, reduce brain capacity in favor of muscle. More beast than man these "ogyns" are tribal by nature and immensely fierce. Their techology devolves to almost nothing.

During this time the Eldar are almost unheard of. Communication from most home worlds is lost and those few that remain produce insanity in any unfortunate to contact it.

Orks are the onyl species to truely thrive in this age. No longer kept at bay by more advanced species they become the super predator. Like a plague they sweep across the systems over the millenia. Not minding to be trapped on huge derelict ships spanning the void at less than light speeds, they take generations to reach new systems, but the ones they reach are usually doomed. The orks learn to subjugate and dominate other races for things they cannot themselves produce. This is a veritable golden age for the orks.

On Terra the Emperor slowly lays the ground work for breaking out of the sol system...

..more to follow later.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:14 am 
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Hi Primarch,

Cool background!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:28 am 
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Nice start Primarch. The set up is well done. :D

I look forward to the next part.

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:25 am 
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Kind of lame comment but: looks good. I don't think I have anything to add.  :cool:

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:46 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 21 2005 June,02:11)
There seems to be a lot of talk about army lists, what does and does not need lists. But I thought the original idea was to work on the background. Does the background need to alighn to the lists only?

At a general level, you are absolutely right. The background (in my view) should simply bind everything together. It should give a reason why force X behaves in a certain way. However, I dont think that it is possible to have any part of any background that does not attract at least one person to want to create a 'real' army based on it.

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:31 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 21 2005 June,02:11)
There seems to be a lot of talk about army lists, what does and does not need lists. But I thought the original idea was to work on the background. Does the background need to alighn to the lists only?

Why can't we have something in the fluff that is not in the lists?

Necrons for example, why can't we have them in the fluff without thinking they need to be in the lists?

What is it we are about to do, modify the background or make official NetEpic lists?

dafrca

I'm with you dafrca, we should be working on the background fluff. As we all know, since the Rogue Trader and Adeptus Titanicus days, GW has written and rewritten fluff so much that some aspects are either in gross contradiction to one another or just silly. SM chapter size springs readily to mind as an example of fluff that I consider plain, old silly. What I believe is needed is a rewrite of fluff to make in internally coherent and make some rational sense. Many talented people have improved on the SM/TL rules to produce what we all know as Version 5.0. Now, let's fix the fluff!   :)

I feel that it is perfectly legitimate to have something in fluff that doesn't need an army list. Granted fluff might later on lead to an "official" army list, but I feel that should come after the fluff has been ironed out.

Primarch, what you have posted so far for background is a good start!  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:12 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 21 2005 June,06:46)
However, I dont think that it is possible to have any part of any background that does not attract at least one person to want to create a 'real' army based on it.

That is OK with me, but we need not do lists first and then background. To me that is the cart before the horse.

We need to do the background, make it work, have fun with it, add in what ever we think fits, and then worry about lists.

Just my take.

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:14 pm 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 21 2005 June,07:31)
I feel that it is perfectly legitimate to have something in fluff that doesn't need an army list. Granted fluff might later on lead to an "official" army list, but I feel that should come after the fluff has been ironed out.

Yes, exactly.  :laugh:

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say so well.

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:21 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 21 2005 June,18:14)
Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 21 2005 June,07:31)
I feel that it is perfectly legitimate to have something in fluff that doesn't need an army list. Granted fluff might later on lead to an "official" army list, but I feel that should come after the fluff has been ironed out.

Yes, exactly. ?:laugh:

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say so well.

dafrca

I'm glad we're on the same wavelength!  :D

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:43 pm 
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Hi!

Continuation....

The Emperor slowly puts into effect his plans unify humanity and make it resistant to the depredations of the entities that now populate the warp (known to the ignorant as "demons").

The campaign to subjugate the sol system is during the closing years of the age of strife. This time is important since it marks the development of bio-engineered humans as elite soldiers and the construction of the first fleets. The annexation of Mars was crucial in these beginning steps as much techology had been preserved. It came at a cost. Technology was worshiped, not mastered. The notion that the golden age technology was the epitome of knowledge. Some came to beleive it could not be bettered. It was reverently kept, but not built upon. Even before the warp storms abated technological advance was crawling to a virtual standstill.

But what technology was to be had was put to brutal use. When the warp storms disappears what flowed out of the sol system was an armada like nothing seen before. Vast, organized and with one purpose - the unification of the galaxy under the rule of man.

The Age of stife lasts nearly 5,000 years.

The Age of the Great Crusade

With most warp storms gone the great hosts of Terra quickly conquered neighboring systems. Some systems came back peacefully others not so peacefully. In the end the material strength of the new "Imperium" won the day.

There are many accounts of the Imperium facing human "empires" of greater technology, but the sheer attritional strength of the Imperium would eventually erode the enemy. While many STC systems were recuperated, many were also destroyed when the defeated took them with them in their death throes.

During this time contact with a series of homeworlds of variant human, whom were smaller in size, but technologically adept were found. They called themselves "demuirge". In honor of of a great leader who though guile and use of available technology kept the homeworlds from oblivion against an ork horde. This is one of the few examples were technology was freely given to the Imperium in exchange for autonomy.

The Orks retreated before this new organized threat. Hiding in innacessible systems where man had little desire to follow. They would plague man incessantly through the next millenia.

The Eldar also retreated. While far advanced in technology they could never hope to win in attritional wars against the limitless human hordes.

During the Cursades the bio-engineered human soldiers soon to be known as Space Marines were perfected. But the Emperor wanted more. A whole race of super humans. Uncorrupt, strong and with purpose. For this he created beings known as primarchs. Furthermore Space Marines would no longer be inducted from the masses as they have been but from the direct genetic material of these super beings. The plan had one fatal flaw even the presience of the Emperor could not foresee.

A new power in the galaxy became aware and sentient at this time. A power soon to be known and feared. That power is chaos. Chaos feeds of the emotional energy of sentinet beings. Humans are its main fare. Being so emotional charged, sentiments such as agression, treachery and the power to pollute any enviorment had expressions in the warp. Khorne for mans violence and war like nature. Tzeentch for mans power to change, his double dealings with others. Nurgle for the power of man to corrupt body and soul and well as the material universe. Only the power slaneesh came from an non-human source, but could easily appeal to mans lust and desires as well.

These beings were not mere automatons. They had thoughts and desires as well and a superhuman race was not one of them. Using their corrupting powers they managed to teleport the fetal primarchs accross the galaxy. They were aware since primarchs were not natural born of man and woman they would absorbs the traits of whatever world they appeared on. While chaos had no control over where they would appear they had gambled that some enviorments would give some of the primarchs character flaws that chaos could later exploit. Time would prove them right.

Meanwhile the crusades continued, in time the primarchs were revealed. They led the space marine legions for which they were created. Even then while they had great power, the small flaws that would prove their downfall started to appear.

Magnus's desire for known all things forbidden, Angron's desire for martial conflict, even when conflict was not necessary. Fulgrims overindulgence in all things related to the senses. Cultists from al over the galaxy quietly fed these needs and desires as the rot spread through the Legions.

At the Imperiums greatest moment - the unification of the galaxy under mans rule, came its utter fall.

For the whisperings from the warp became commands....

..any many primarchs obeyed.

To be continued.....

Primarch

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:44 am 
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Well now, wasn't that a nice addition to the start.

Chaos comes a knocking. :laugh:

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fluff vs. Lists
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:00 am 
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Hi Primarch,

I really like the story so far! :)

Shalom,
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