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Eldar Tactics & advice

 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:02 pm 
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Hello all
New player and new member of the forums here, saying hello to ya all.

I'm right now putting together an eldar army for a 3000 pts battle. We're using either the space marine or the netepic rules... they are quite close, so tactics should work both ways.

I'll be playing either against space marines or imperial guard... not quite sure which, my opponent is well aware of me playing eldar.

The army so far looks like this:
Eldar Falcon Host (450 pts, 3x3 falcons)
Eldar Windrider Host (650 pts, 2x5 vypers, 3x5 jetbikes)
-Warlock Titan (750 pts, 2 pulsar lasers, 2 wing lasers)
-Warlock (100 pts, warlock & falcon)
-2 Doom Weaver Detachments (300 pts, 2x2 doom weavers)
-2 Striking Scorpion Detachments (300 pts, 2x4 scorpions)
-2 Wave Serpent Detachments (300 pts, 2x2 serpents)
For a grand total of 2850 pts. :blues:

My strategy so far is to
a) take out enemy titan(s) with warlock titan
b) move wave serpent close to artellery (moving jetbikes & vypers along, hiding behind the serpents), disembark scorpions and destroy the artellery.
c) warlock is backup for stopping enemy titan, using psychic lock. Otherwise I'll use his ability to anticipate enemy orders.
d) doom weavers will try to take out enemy mobile forces, like CC troops or tanks. Could also take out some artellery or their bodyguard. Mainly I just like them for their unlimited range and huge templates :)

Do you think this could work? How would you take my army and plan apart?
Any advice would be much appreciated.

Be well
Alexander Munck


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:16 pm 
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Hi, welcome to the boards.

I'd love to help you out, but I'm afraid I dont know the Netepic system.  However, there are plenty here that do, and I'm sure they'll be here shortly.  :)


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:06 pm 
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Hi, once again, welcome!
Netepic, Primarch & co will sort you out pretty quick.. good to see another Eldar player here!  :)

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:06 pm 
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Hi!

Welcome to the boards Pink Elephant!

You've come to the right place for rules questions regarding net epic and Sm!

First are there ARE big differences between SM and net epic which may impact on your strategy and games.

Net epic uses alternating movement. This means there is no "you go I go" like in the old system. You alternate moving like firing one detachment at a time. Makes movement more tactical. If you add snap fire (overwatch) and hidden orders (fog or war) it makes for a VERY different games.

More directed answers towards your army selection:

Warlock and psychic lock. In net epic shielded targets get a save versus this type of attack or they dont work at all, so dont count on this plan to work under net epic rules. Overall psychic powers have been well defined and categorized. In other words its not fiar for a 100 point unit to immobilize a titan that may be worth up to 900, not going to happen under net epic.

You army selection is what I call "classical". I saw this selection hundreds of times over the years and its quite "brittle", especially if your opponent knows how to play and already knows you're playing epic.

You have no "Staying power", too little infantry. I dont mean aspect warriors, I mean guardians. They are underused by eldar players because they have no special attributes, but the have numbers and you need them to defend objectives, espeically against a numerous enemy. If you play against IG or Orks you will be severely outnumbered and wont have numbers to hold what you take.

Doomweavers, nice units, but their main use is not destruction of units (too random), but making avenues of advance impassible. Use them to close avenues of advance or close buildings so he cant put heavy weapons in them. This is their prime use. Don't count on high casualties with this weapons, troops and vehicles get their save or a 4+ which ever is greater.

Warlock titan, again a HUGE favorite in eldar titan armament, double pulse lasers. Its great for taking down shields fast, but what are you using for the knock out blow? A -2 modifier is weak against a warlord. If you play netepic, shields are regenerated on a 4+, not 5+ and the warlord no longer has that plasma reactor from the front location. On average you will NOT get his titan at one volley. If your opponent is good he will knock off your holofield generator with a well placed missile blast (template weapon) and knock you out with a volcano cannon. So he has MORE chances of a "one turn" knock out that you do. Also note there are differences with how barrage weapons affect holo-fields in net epic and SM, the net epic rules benefit you the eldar player (all barage weapons scatter regardless if shot is direct or not).

Windhost, too predictable. They charge and die, you give up 7 VP's. The IG player can easily tie you up with a rough rider company which cost less and has a MUCH better break point that the wind host. Note yet another difference between the two systems. Under SM there is a lethal anti eldar "trick". He can engage your wind riders in close combat and since they are skimmers the opponent can proceed to LEGALLY shoot into close combat and pick off all your wind riders with first fire shooting, Under net epic you cant do this.

You have next to no troop support. Striking scorpions are nice, but they are 4 stands and break with 2 casualties. Also there is a nasty anti-scorpion trick, where if they can be engaged in terrain an armored vehicle eliminates their bonus dice in CC and the scorpion gets only ONE d6 +CAF, I have seen Land radiers or Leman russes do well in this scenario, although the true scorpion killer are terminators, they are well armored!

So, I get rid of some wave serpents (their weapon is fickle and does do that great on average) and get some guardians in there. Use the wind host in back up squads to you guardians to protect them from assaults (counter assault or assault first with jetbikes). Use the Vypers on pop-up, they have great to hit rolls and have two attack die! Rake those enemies who get too close to the objectives.

For such limited points I'd get two revenant titans instead of the warlock and put them on anti-vehicle detail on the flanks, their speed and jump jet capability will get them in the rear fast without exposure.

I'm happy to answer more directed questions.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:36 pm 
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I have to agree with Primarch, for the most part, again.  Not enough Infantry = Grunts, the measure of any army. And use the Eldar's "pop-up" ability, that's their true advantage over all other armies.  And welcome aboard !  ???

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:21 pm 
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Thank you all for the welcome, I'll be sure to enjoy the stay :)

And with a clatter my entire army falls apart... less positive than what I would've hoped for, but I guess it goes to show that this is my second game of epic, first with eldars.
We're using netepic rules btw, wasn't sure, but the alternated moves/shots is a giveaway.

Taking your comments into account, I'll replace the falcon host with an eldar warhost (falcons and guardians, saves me some points).
As for titans, I don't think we have any revenant titan models, so I'll keep the warlock. Other than that... I'm pretty sure my opponent will be playing IG, and he'll be using a lot of artellery. With any luck, I should be able to use the wave serpents fairy effectively against his artellery, together with the bikes. Doom weavers will shoot both to block lines of advance, and against troops, depending on the situation.
You're probably right about the warlocks ineffectiveness against the titan, but he might still come in handy... we'll see.

so:
Eldar Warhost (850 pts, 3x6 guardians, 3x3 falcons)
Wind Rider Host (650 pts, 2x5 vypers, 3x5 jetbikes)
-Warlock Titan (750 pts, 2 pulsars, 2 wing lasers)
-Warlock (100 pts, falcon and warlock)
-2 Doom Weavers (300 pts, 2x2 weavers)
-Wave Serpent (150 pts, 2 serpents)
-Striking Scorpions (150 pts, 4 scorpions)
-Avatar (free, avatar)
-Saim-Hann Wild Riders (free, 1x5 jetbikes)

As I said, he relies a lot on artellery, so I'll try to sneak my wave serpent and bikes down one of the flanks, the serpents shielding the bikes, and then use the remaining bikes and guardians to hold the objectives and slow his approach. Doow weavers will help the guardians hold the objectives by blocking advance routes and shooting at the artellery.
Is it a good idea just to avoid his titan? He might have a warlord, which can do serious damage... so I really want to take it down. Maybe if my warlock titan can cast doom on it...

My strategy isn't much changed, but army composition contains a lot more infantry. I'm pretty sure I'll outnumber him (he really doesn't like infantry), so this'll be interesting.

Anyways, thanks for the help, more advice will be most welcome :)

Be well
Alexander Munck


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:32 pm 
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You'll hear me say this often, "always do what works for you" ...  :;):   Your opponent's dislike for Infantry will be his "undoing".  Tanks are easier to use than Infantry, but you must use Inf., AFVs, FA, etc. together or play at your own "peril" ... I suspect you'll have an easy victory ... as his armor burns. "Two burning Tigers on fire in the night, flicker their souls to wind ... along the road to Berlin "

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:10 pm 
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Hi!

Although I said before your original selection may be termed "classic", if your IG opponent also does the classic artillery heavy IG force without a good amount of grunts, I think your quick moving force should crush him quite easily, more so if he doesn't bring any rough riders to guard them.

Move you guardians and support falcons up to the objectives closest to you. Use the warlock to snipe with its pulse lasers at 100cm range and knock off his tanks and artillery from afar. If a titan is in range, dont go for a big kill, cripple it, knock off a couple of weapons (which with your -2 modifier you'll find easier to do than going for the head or legs). Once nuetralized go back to picking off his army, you can kill the titan at your leisure later.

Concentrate assaults. Its tempting to go for several objectives at once, but you can not afford dilution of your small force. Go for one or two objectives close together and pile your assault troops there. Once taken CONSOLIDATE as in wipe any threat to take them back from you. If you manage to get 4-6 objectives humker down and snipe away at him.

PLease let us know how it goes!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:15 pm 
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First, sorry for my last post, seems rather messy to me now :)

Second, thanks for the help, and I'll certainly let you know how it goes.

Your advice is pretty much the same as my plan... the guardians and some jetbikes will hold objectives.
Wave serpents, striking scorpions and the rest of the jetbikes will go for the artillery (look mom, I learned how to spell artillery right) and the Warlock titan will make life difficult for opposing titans or use it's pulsar on barrage mode versus his artillery.
I'll certainly let you guys know how it goes... and I'm feeling more confident before the battle now, so thanks :)

It's nice to know that basic troops _are_ important, as I thought (from my limited experience) that the problem with epic was that they were not important. It's irritating when the rules don't support the fluff, and according to the fluff, infantry is important.

Another thing I'm pondering: How to use the avatar. With it's speed of 30 (2x15) it's not very fast... maybe as some extra support for the objectives, or maybe position it to go straight for the   enemy titan. I'm pretty sure how to use my free jetbikes... but I don't know about the avatar.

Please do enlighten me :)

Be well
Alexander Munck


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:11 am 
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Hi!

The avatar is usually on of those "hit or miss" units. Either it does a lot of doesn't do anything.

The BEST thing to do with it, is to "coax" your opponent to waste time and effort taking it out. With its 2+ saves versus everything, it can take a lot of punishment.

Try to guess where on the battlefield you expect the great fight to occur. Or where the greatest amount of enemy firepower will be concentrated. This way you try to force your opponent to shoot at it. Try to go for an objective thats not to far away, have it take it and move on to the next (leaving reserves to defend it.

Try to get it around his titan or big units, even if it doesn't take it out, it keeps it busy.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:06 pm 
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Yeah, pretty much what I figured... I'll see if I can't get it close to his titan, and maybe take an objective along the way.

Another thing: I looked at the army-list again and from what I can see, the only thing the eldar have that is good for taking out titans is the tempest tank.
But is it worth it? With it's ability to pop-up combined with the tempest cannon, it looks as if it is quite dangerous, however against massed enemy units, it might not fire often enough to do much damage. A single detachment has 3 units, for 500 pts. Is it worth it (I'm figuring that it at least has to a 5000 pts battle before it works).

Be well
Alexander Munck


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:27 pm 
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Hi!

Tempest are ALWAYS worth taking them. Remember though their CAF is real low for a super heavy tank, so keep some reserve assault troops to help it out. Its twin cannon are fearsome with a -3 modifier it makes blasting titans easier. Its 100cm range means you can hide it at your base line and reek havoc with long range pot-shots.

Maybe ONE model in your force would balance it out.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:41 pm 
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Hmm... unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's any way to purchase them one at a time. Bugger that. I can't really see how to make room for 500 pts. Maybe downgrading to phantom titan and removing my warloc and one of the doom weavers. Then I could add a single prism cannon as well...
Dunno. Would that be an improvement?

I don't think I'd have to add some CC troops, I'll just dedicate the free jetbikes unit to defending them.

Be well
Alexander Munck


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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:16 pm 
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Hi!

To be frank, games with less than 3000 points are hard to justify including a titan. Too few points to go around. A company of tempests would probably be a better expense and be more useful and harder to engage.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Eldar Tactics & advice
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:16 pm 
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But I wants my titan, it's purdy...

Strategically speaking though, I think you're right. But it would still be rather painful to remove it, so I think I'll chance it :)

Be well
Alexander Munck


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