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Army list review: Ultramarines
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4000		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
I was browsing a 40K-forum the other day, and one of the highlights of it was the armylist reviews section. So I thought Id start one here aswell, and I hope you others follow my example! Please post your comments on possible improvements etc.

4000 point Space Marine army list (general purpose); Titans not included

Company Cards: (2200 pts)
1 Devastator Company (1000 pts)
1 Landraider Company (750 pts)
1 Marine Scout Company (450 pts)

Support Cards: (1700 pts)
1 Terminator Detachment (350 pts)
2 Bike Detachments (250 pts)
2 Landspeeder Detachments (400 pts)
3 Thunderhawk Gunships (300 pts)
1 "Combined" Dreadnought Detachment (100 pts)
1 Robot Detachment (100 pts)
1 Mole Mortar Battery (100 pts)
1 Thudd Gun Battery (100 pts)

Special Cards: (75 pts !)
1 Chaplain (75 pts)

Total Cost: 3975 pts

The main thinking behind this army (which hasnt been tested in combat btw) is that it will be: 1. flexible and versatile 2. fast and mobile. With the Scouts, the Land Raiders, and the Thunderhawks I have several options. 1. I can use them all separatly (Scouts on foot maybe infiltrating etc, the thunderhawks joining the bikes and speeders in the fast attacking force, landraiders joining the devastators in the heavy support role) 2. I can put the Scouts in the Thunderhawks and sail in on the far-off objectives or enemy artillery 3. I can put the Scouts in the Land Raiders and use them as a combined main assault force (charge on first turn, disembark scouts, take defensive position with Raiders).

Am I crazy? Have anyone of you guys tried an army such as this one out? Tell me what you guys think!
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Well since no one jumped on this, I'll add my "spin".  I take it you are using SM2 rules.  A few quick observations, for better or worse, :)  : Need Whirlwinds for indirect fire support to augment the Thud Guns & M/ Mortars.  Vindicator for close support, and Razorbacks to add fire power to your Mech/transport capabilities.   A little lean on Infantry, maybe add some Assault Troops for fast CQB, and some Tactical Marines for general purpose use.   Since there are figures for Tech Marines, Libs, Medics, etc., we have a stand of each type and one type can be attached with each company to give the unit overall flexibility.  (The figs. are available so we use them !)  I like the Robots and dreads, too bad G/W dropped the Robots from their inventory, but we still use a lot of them.  And Robots and Sci-Fi go together :D  !!!  Well I'm a big advocate of combined arms forces (that's what they taught us at Infantry Officers training) because it works ... turn on CNN, etc., to see combined arms in action ... Well that's my take on it, I may be wrong, it's your force, so do as you like and see fit ...  :)
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
I agree that it is very light on troops, I would certainly add more. As for the robots, good to see them make an appearance. I dont miss them much in Epic, but anyone who knows my background will tell you that I like robots!  :D

I like my combined arms approach with Marines - foot troops advancing with tank support.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Well don't forget artillery support, ie. Whirlwinds, T/guns, M/mortars, etc., plus by mounting troops in APCs, they can advance along with your armored formations, at speed.  I commanded a Rifle Plt. in the 101 and later, a Mech Co. in what now, is 3rd Bde, 3rd ID, they are showing combined arms in action on CNN, ITN, etc. on TV now ... but it's no game ...
Author:  netepic [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
First off, an army with so many bikers is better suited with the Dark Angels or White Scars who can get them in companies.

Otherwise, I would consider getting less support cards (personnal preference) if you look at the battle reports for examples on the EPICentre, you will find that the companies tend to have more bang for there buck.

Only use support cards to get specialised troops and you cannot get else where.

The terminators are a solid option, and in a 4k game, well worth having, in all the games I have played they have always earned there points. (I saw a game once where they were hacked down by an Avatar in CC, but to be fair there is very little that wouldn't be hacked down by an Avatar in CC!!!).

I like your thunderhawks, again, the battle reports on the EPICentre will give you some ideas on there usage.

For a general purpose force, I would consider a Battle company instead of a devestator, so you can assault and shoot, and then ditch a land speeder detachment for a whirlwind battery.

I would also consider using any left over points, plus scrapping the dreadnaughts (too slow to be effective) and getting some vindicators.

Please note, before you take my word as gospel, I have a very aggressive playing style, and my army composition generally suits this.
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Good feedback guys! I agree with most of the stuff that has been said. The reason I didnt take whirlwinds is simple: I dont have any! Being a SM 2ed puritan, I wouldnt even consider using anything but the old (metal) whirlwind models; when I find some of those Ill add them.

I also agree a Ravenwing company card would be far better than those loose detachments, however my army is Ultramarine and I like to stick with the fluff, and I dont like using "allies", so Im stuck with this configuration.

The point about me having to few troops is probably also correct... I just have this feeling that its "wrong" (fluff-wise if nothing else) to use hordes of infantry in a marine army: those elite troops wouldnt go for a "weight-of-numbers" approach.

Finally, about the dreadnoughts and robots... Well all I can say is that we all know theyve got less armor protection than rhinos; we all know theyve got the mobility of artillery pieces, and we all know theyve got the firepower of infantry stands; but hey, they look cool so we gotta love em...

BTW, Id love to see any armylists you guys are putting together/have been using. Id especially like to see a good eldar army list: In my memory they seem to loose all the time...
Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Quote (Brother-Captain Parzval @ 07 2003 April,18:17)
Good feedback guys! I agree with most of the stuff that has been said. The reason I didnt take whirlwinds is simple: I dont have any! Being a SM 2ed puritan, I wouldnt even consider using anything but the old (metal) whirlwind models; when I find some of those Ill add them.

I bought a few of the old shoebox Whirlwinds before Christmas from Mail Order UK. But when I emailed after they said that they were out of production. The US store might have some.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
I didn't see any metal Whirlwinds in the US listings, but it might be worth e-mailing customer service and ask.  Being an old infantryman, I still think you need more "Grunts" :D !  Even with the "fluff", I see SMs as an Infantry force supported by Armor and other weapons, etc.  Also in my Ultra Marine Regiment, I have a Robot and a Dreadnought Company, however we use SM1 templates for most of our forces. They have worked very well for us for years. :D
Author:  netepic [ Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
I will post up some of my samples :).

I always consider my marines as part of the legion, not the chapter, I hate the fact that my armie is limited to 1000 men... how cack is that?!? I am used to thousands of marines pouring onto a planet!! If I want to have just a handful, then I will play 40k!  :angry:
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
"I always consider my marines as part of the legion, not the chapter, I hate the fact that my armie is limited to 1000 men... how cack is that?!? I am used to thousands of marines pouring onto a planet!!"

I definitley agree with this, Ive been thinking about starting to use the sm1 rules instead of the 2ed, cause the feel is so nice to the original game. I need the codex titanicus though and I have no idea as to how Im gonna get a hold of that one... I need the old armycards aswell, I only have the rulebook and some WD articles, no Adeptus Titanicus either.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
As I said, we use the SM1 templates and much of our hybrid rule system are based on SM1. However, SM, IG, Squats, Orks, templates, were done pretty well.  Eldar and Chaos needed a little work, because Jervis, decided to change to SM2 at that time.  I have all those items you mentioned but as I said, I have been playing Epic since '90.  All those templates are in old W/D mags.   :)
Author:  netepic [ Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
They used to be available on the EPICentre but alas... no longer :(....

GW's legal eagles shut that section down.
Author:  stormseer [ Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
..You can still find it on the net though... I know of one site in particular.. try searching for "Adeptus Titanicus" on Google and you should find it... :l
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Well that is good.  At least Jervis & Co. (Big Brother) has not completely erased some of the "old days" with their form of "Orwellian" "New-Speak"... :cool:
Author:  stormseer [ Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Army list review: Ultramarines
Hehe..... I thought Jervis didn't mind the hosting of the PDFs tho.. it was just the dreaded Legal Department who wanted the section closing..... :L
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