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Another stupid Land-Raider topic

 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 12:18 am 
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Hehe - Thats one hell of a lot of troops!!

IIRC?, thats "If I Recall Correctly...."  :-:

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:54 am 
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Hi!

That was indeed a change from SM1 to SM2/Netepic, where the land raider is relegated to mostly "tank" duty or being the transport of elite units like terminators. I haven't seen much desire or inclination from players to want land raiders as tactical transports, the rhinos are much faster for deployment, so they seemed favored for this over the land raiders. Heck I have been inclined to have termies ride on rhinos to get where they are going quicker, but that feels somewhat blasphemous so I don't do it. :p

It is a recurrent theme on the net epic list regarding the rhinos that are part of a detachment having to keep in step with the infantry. The rule giving them separate orders has alleviated this, but there seems to be opposition to outright "divorce" them.

While from time to time some "dumb" things happen when adhereing to this rule, overall its not that critical.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:49 am 
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That sounds like a good rule amendment, Primarch. It's resonable and realistic.  I think Jervis's attempt to simplify the rules from SM1 to SM2, had a number of covert "glitches".  However easily fixed with a little fine tuning ... or not ... :D

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 2:29 pm 
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Hi!

Its one of the older rule amendemts and it has worked pretty well. It adds another dimension of tactics to know what orders to give the transports and which to give to the troops carried. Coupled with our fog of war rule (you dont reveal order UNTIL you activate the unit) and alternate activation it does very well.

Sometimes I forget how VERY different net epic and SM2 have really become.

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:06 pm 
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Yes, we only flip an order counter when a unit is activated. ?And only one unit is activated at a time alternating back and forth. ?This makes it quite a "chess game" and adds a bit of realism, thru the "artifictial" mechanics of the game. ?Your opponent does not know what you're doing till you do it ...

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:30 pm 
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Hi!

Definately, the combination of fog of war, alternating movement and eliminating what orders can move first or second (in other words you activate any order for the purpose of movement), makes for a very tactical game.

Makes you wonder why they didn't do this instead of making up whole new systems. Ever wonder what the epic hobby would be like if they would have made an "optimized" SM/TL game instead of epic 40k? Makes you wonder.... }:)

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 12:29 am 
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..Hehe ..thats one in a number of questions we can ask about GW and their strategies... indeed it would have been interesting...

I don't mind **too** much tho, as Epic 40k has brought fourth the great game that is Battlefleet Gothic!! :D

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:47 am 
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Hi!

I always thought somewhat hilarious that the similar mechanics between the two games brought fame to one game (BFG) and infamy to the other (epic 40k).

Go figure...

Primarch

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:58 am 
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Well that's the beauty of it, if we didn't like something we experimented with it and changed it to suit us, for any number of reasons.  Regardless of what the offical G/W line was.

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:09 pm 
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Hi!

Legion 4 you really need to get me a written file on the rules your group uses, I'm really interested!  :)

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:18 pm 
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Quote: "Legion 4 you really need to get me a written file on the rules your group uses, I'm really interested!"

Sign me up aswell! It sounds as if you have a system of 100 % house rules though, might be too complex for outsiders...

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:52 pm 
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Well I am glad that you all are interested, we have a "working copy" on my buddy's computer. We update things as we see fit. We are currently thinking of incorporating the E-A combat results system. ?And as I said, in many cases, we just melded rules from SM1, SM2, E40K, DSII, etc. ?For example, for aircraft, we dropped the air-to-air combat rules from E40K, that should be a whole other game. ?We use the SM1 off-board support rules for air strikes now with the proliferation of aircraft models in the game. ?By simply placing the aircraft model next to the target, place the 6cm burst template on target in base to base contact with the flyer base and take it from there. So as you can see it's not really that difficult a set of rules to use, but it really is a melding of systems. ?We also use the SM2 rules as a base for commander/ special troop rules, since now the have figures for Libs, Techs, Medics, etc. instead of putting them all on one base like E40K, they are individually based with 4 other Marines, + a Banner like in SM1. ?We also took some of those ideas from old Citadel Journals. ?We also use the pop-up rules from SM2 for the Thunderhawk, land speeder, Chaos Disc riders, most Eldar vehicles, ?etc. ?So as you can see with these example we really did not rewrite the rules as we mixed them together. ?We still use the SM1 templates and some SM2 cards to organize our troops, and we also continue to use the AT1/SM1 rules to generate scenarios/ victory conditions and basic force levels. ?So at this point it still needs some fine tuning with the intro of the E-A combat results system. ?So once we have a solid set I'll let you know. ?But since we have been playing since '90, much of these rules are instinctive to us. ?However, with family matters, work, etc., we have less time to play and more time to discuss. :( ? However, since we are veteran players, we quickly can assimilate changes. ? With some of the examples I gave you maybe you can try these ideas. ?If you have any specific questions about how we do things, please feel free to ask. ?As time went on we became very open to trying new things to add (or delete), from our "hybrid" rule system. ? I could go into the reasons why we do this, but that really isn't as important as how vs. why ... ?And this works for us ... :D

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:05 pm 
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How simple is it to play, compared to Netepic, SM1 and 2, Epic 40k and BFG??  ??? It sounds very interesting... :)

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:40 am 
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Hi!

I'm always into analyzing "home brew" rules. While I understand the rules are tailor made for your group, I think it would be fun to scrutinize a written version and check out the ideas and different takes on rules.

Who knows you may have several "gems " in their that net epic or heresy may use!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Another stupid Land-Raider topic
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:47 am 
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It's no more difficult to play than SM1/SM2/E40K.  But it's strongly based on "reality", so to speak.  Silly, unrealistic rules, that do not make sense from a military/ historical stand point, are dropped or rewritten. But generally it flows logically and reasonably, regardless of the fact that you are fighting aliens, deamons, etc. :laugh: !!!  It needs more "fine tuning", before it's ready for "public consumption", with the possible addition of the E-A combat system.  But for us, it's a matter of our years of gaming, (starting in '70) and not just Epic, that many of our methods are instinctive.   However, I'll see down the road, we might be able to produce a hard-copy for all to see, as opposed to our little cult who knows how to play amongest ourselves.  But many of the rules are unchanged from the original systems we took them from, so as I said, we just added them all together and modified as needed.

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