Can someone make me rules to use this thing? It's an XV109 doohickey. Just started slapping paint all over its face.
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| Rules for Recent Tau Units? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30951 |
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Can someone make me rules to use this thing? It's an XV109 doohickey. Just started slapping paint all over its face.
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Is this NetEpic gold or Armageddon forum? I wanted NetEpic gold |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
this is the Epic Armageddon section |
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| Author: | Corran_dk [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Ohhh... shiny! |
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Nobody? |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Surprised Magnus hasn't wandered by. He the resident god of NetEpic pricing/stats. Wish I could help; Wrong system for me. 
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Thanks for the compliment jimmyzimms. Yeah, I can come up with something for that. Probably. Mind, I have no idea what it's W40K stats are, but I'm sure I can get some data from a wiki somewhere. Without looking anything up... Based on the scale, it almost has to be a Knight for Pinning Class purposes. Still, it's a bit on the small size for a Knight. Thus it is a "Scout" Knight. This means that while it can Pin any model of Vehicle or lower Pinning Class (including other Scout Knights), it cannot pin standard Knights or above. [This is something I developed for a side project I've done utilizing the Points Formula to give NetEpic stats to another range of models that I have.] Thus it's Pinning Class value for the formula is 3.5. It would likely have the 'Battlesuit' property as well. Well, as a Knight it cannot technically have the Battlesuit property, but as it would be the same technology it is reasonable to assign it the abilities conferred by Battlesuit. In other words, it would have Quickdraw, Fire on the Fly, and "May fire at Stealth models that are more than 25cm away." Based on that "backpack", I'm guessing that it has the Jump ability at the least and might possibly be a Skimmer. If a Skimmer, probably the 'no pop up' type. It appears to have a Railgun (right arm) and a multi-barreled cannon of some type (left arm). Based on existing (NetEpic anyway) models, I'd guess a Burst Cannon for the left arm. Probably similar to the XV-8 Mk1, but with a longer range - probably 50cm, and just a 180 front fire arc. The Railgun stats would probably be about the same as the XV-88, but also just a 180 degree front fire arc. Move rate would probably be 20cm. Save ... I have no idea. Possibly base of 3+ as it has more mass than even an XV-88. Possibly with a fixed save, as all other Battlesuit models have, but probably only at F6+ due to larger size. CAF also no clue. Possibly about +3 as that makes it slightly better than a Hammerhead - more maneuverable due to being bipedal, slightly better than an XV-8 due to more mass to move about, but not much better because it is Tau. Right, that could work. Let's see what that comes up to. Stats of: Pinning Class: Scout Knight Terrain Access: Knight Move: 20cm Special: Jump Save: 3+ / F6+ CAF: +3 Railgun: 75cm, 1, 4+, -3, Penetrating 1, 180F Burst Cannon: 50cm, 4, 4+, 0, 180F SA: Fire on the Fly, Jump, Quickdraw, Target Stealth Morale: 2 Under the Points Formula, the above comes to 182.4 points, which rounds to 182 for a formation (Card) of 1 model. Comparing similar Points Formula values to NetEpic Gold values, these stats should cost 100 under Gold. I should probably go look that up in a wiki now to see where I went wrong. I may even do that later... |
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| Author: | Corran_dk [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
40k rules found here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Tau-XV109.pdf |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Based on that link, it looks like most of the above is good, except for the weapons and possibly the Armor Save. On that page, they do call it a Battlesuit, so it should probably be a Walker class rather than Knight class. It seems a bit too large to me to call it a Walker, but what do you think? The 'Phased Plasma-Flamer' could use the small teardrop template or could just have a couple of shots. Do you have a preference? I'm really not sure how to translate the 'Ionic Discharge Cannon', as I am not aware of anything like it currently in NetEpic. Whoops, scratch that. There are a couple of models with "Ion Cannon" weapons. The Hammerhead Mk1, Barracuda, Tiger Shark Drone Carrier, and Swordfish Mk1. Are these the same weapon? That is, in W40K do these have the same special effects as the Ionic Discharge Cannon? Similarly for the Armor Saves. I'm not really sure how directly they convert from W40K to Epic. Would you be so kind as to work up a comparison (chart or otherwise) between the W40K stats and the NetEpic Gold stats? |
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Yeah it's just a massive battlesuit. It's just a variant of the Riptide. |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Sorry, there is no 'Riptide' in NetEpic Gold, so I have no idea what that is or how it compares for size. Just in case I was not clear, I need input from you before I can proceed. Specifically: A: Should it be classified as Walker or Knight? This affects it's Pinning Class, whether it can fit in any existing Transports (Walker can, Knight cannot), and the firing arc of it's weapons (Walker is generally 360, Knight is generally 180). Of course it's cost will be affected as well. B: Should the Plasma-Flamer use a template or just have a number of shots? C: Does the 'Ionic Discharge Cannon' on this model function in the same way as the "Ion Cannon" found on the four mentioned models in W40K stats? If not, how is it different. D: How does the Armor Save on this model compare to the Armor Saves of other Tau Battlesuits in W40K stats? While I could just look these up myself, I don't own any W40K codex books for Tau, so I'd have to hunt for the information, and I have more important things to do. If you want stats for this, I'll need some assistance from you, or from someone who is knowledgeable about Tau in W40K. |
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
I would say it's just a big ass walker and I do believe the fluff mentions somewhere that they can be dropped in via manta but I'm not sure. I'm guessing template on the plasma flamer thingy. The ionic discharge cannon looks to be a stronger ion cannon with much much less range. The armor save is similar to other battlesuits this large. 2+ with an invulnerable save for being so big. Based on the weapons and jetback ability of this walker, it's a rapid assault in your face brawler. |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
That helps. In W40K, can an XV-109 be carried by a Devilfish? Template it is. Strong, but short range, Ion Cannon, check. Sure, but NetEpic doesn't currently have any other Battlesuits of the size of the XV-109. The XV-88 is the closest and the XV-88 is about half the size of the XV-109 (based on a graphic on Lexicanum). How does the XV-109's save compare to the XV-88 or the XV-8? Or to the suits worn by a Shas'el, Shas'o, or Shas'vre? Also, as far as I could see, it's Fixed save doesn't come from it's size, but from the field generator (forgot the name already). Well, a rapid assault, close range shooter anyway. Actually, that's a good point. Movement rate. Does it have the same speed in W40K as the other XV suits, or is it different? |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Hmm, no response yet. Well, I'm going to guess - based on your previous response - that an XV-109 cannot be carried by a Devilfish. Thus it will remain a Knight (Scout) class for the moment. I could tweak the Manta, but it would be simpler to say that the XV-109 counts as three or four stands, since a normal Tau Battlesuit counts as two. Still not certain what to do with the save, but I'll go ahead and use the better values (base 2+, Fixed 5+) and see how the cost goes. Keeping Move at 20cm for the moment. Thus: Pinning Class: Scout Knight Terrain access: Walker/Knight Move: 20cm Special: Jump Save: 2+ / F5+ CAF: +3 Phased Plasma Flamer: Small Teardrop, 3+, -1, Ignore Cover Ionic Discharge Cannon: 50cm, 2, 3+, TSM 0 vs (Infantry & Cavalry) but -2 vs (Light Artillery, Walker, Vehicle, Flyer, Heavy Artillery, Super Heavy, Knight, Praetorian, and Titan) except when the target is entirely organic. SA: Fire on the Fly, Jump, Quickdraw, Target Stealth, Wounds 2. Morale 2 Using the Points Formula, that comes to 281.2 points, which rounds to 281. Comparing to similarly priced models ... well, there really aren't any. The closest is the Shas'el at 324.71 points. In NetEpic Gold, a Shas'el is approximately 100, but it is never found on it's own so that value may be misleading. In the other direction, the next closest price model is the Tiger Shark Drone Carrier at 220.99, which costs 150 in NetEpic Gold. Thus for NetEpic Gold, with the stats in this post, I'd cost the XV-109 at 175 at the lowest, though 200 is probably more reasonable. |
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| Author: | OmniJackal [ Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules for Recent Tau Units? |
Very sorry. Been working 15 hour shifts and had my first game yesterday so been stupidly busy. XV-109 cannot be carried by a Devilfish. It's as large as two of them. I'd say a single riptide class (XV104, 107, 109) would take up 4 stands so only a dropship or manta can carry it. Base 2+ fixed 5+ looks good. 20cm move looks good. CAF I'm not sure what to do with. A Tau commander is +3 and isn't built for assaults. While this thing is a brawler, one could argue that it's large and cumbersome so +3 seems fine for now. Plasma flamer looks good. The discharge cannon seems more appropriate at 25cm range and -3 vs anything except infantry cavalry (to represent the haywire effect) as in 40k the range of the weapon is less than 1/3 that of a standard ion cannon. In addition I might drop the weapon to 2d6 4+ as the larger suits do not have high ballistic skills and instead rely on markerlights. On that note, now that I have a game in the tau are appropriately shooty but sort of wrong. They have standard shooting ranges of 50cm for infantry but have a higher hit chance. Tau have long ranged weapons but don't shoot very well. Fire Warriors would be better suited having 75cm range on their pulse rifles and hit on 5s rather than 4s or 3s. This would actually force the army to make use of markerlights. In the game I played, I lost my pathfinders (the only markerlights I had) on turn one and had no trouble lighting my opponent up the entire game. I feel at this point that this needs to be looked at as it appears that the army was given shooting bonuses in the wrong area (better to hit than marines but same range when marines actually should have better to hit but less range). |
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