Tactical Command
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Squat Beserker Battle Car
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29821		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  The Bissler [ Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat Beserker Battle Car
The rules say that the Beserker Battlecar "carries numerous weapons as well as a detachment of Squat Beserkers" but there is nothing mentioned about the Beserkers in the relevant card. Am I right in saying that they do not come as part of the unit, it's really just the case that they can carry Beserkers?
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
Well, the wording in the Squats_with_errata.pdf is very similar to the wording in the Warlords supplement for 2nd edition, but doesn't specifically say that it includes the Berserkers. The wording that the pdf does have strongly suggests to me that the intention was to include them [a detachment of 5 stands] with the Battlecar. Thus if using the Gold costs it would be safe to assume that the Berserkers are included.

That said, in the Formula values the points cost for that Battlecar does NOT include a detachment of stands, only the capacity to carry up to five stands of Infantry, so the default model can be used to carry whatever troops you'd like.
Author:  The Bissler [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
Thanks Magnus, I thought as much!

Primarch, would you care to comment from a Gold perspective? I'm sure other Squat players would be interested to know.
Author:  primarch [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
The Bissler wrote:
Thanks Magnus, I thought as much!

Primarch, would you care to comment from a Gold perspective? I'm sure other Squat players would be interested to know.


Hi!

Back in the day we assumed a detachment of berserkers came with them.

Of course that is an assumption with no supporting evidence it was ever meant to be the way. Just the way I have seen it played.

Primarch
Author:  The Bissler [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
So Gold players should assume that they come with the car?
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
If using the Gold points values, yes. If using the formula values, no. I may make a version of the Battlecar that includes them for the formula, but I don't have time just now.
Author:  The Bissler [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
Hi Magnus, thanks but I'm clear on that point for the formula. I think this does need to be addressed for people still using Gold though. ;)

In case this is coming across as being arsey I don't mean it to be. I just think clarity is required. :)
Author:  The Bissler [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
Also, should there be VPs & BPs for the Beserkers attached to the Land Train? Every other Free Card has this, why not Squats?
Author:  primarch [ Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
MagnusIlluminus wrote:
If using the Gold points values, yes. If using the formula values, no. I may make a version of the Battlecar that includes them for the formula, but I don't have time just now.


Hi!

This would be my interpretation as well. :)

Primarch
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
The Bissler wrote:
Also, should there be VPs & BPs for the Berserkers attached to the Land Train? Every other Free Card has this, why not Squats?


Presumably, as far as Gold values are concerned, the value of the Berserkers is already included in the Battlecar. By value, I'm meaning both cost and VP. Presumably they also have no BP. Even back in 2nd edition Warlords supplement, there was no listed BP, VP, or cost for the Berserkers included with the Battlecar aside from that of the Battlecar itself.

In other words, one does not receive a "Free card of Berserkers" so much as the Berserkers are a feature (or benefit?) of that particular Battlecar.
Author:  The Bissler [ Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
MagnusIlluminus wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
Also, should there be VPs & BPs for the Berserkers attached to the Land Train? Every other Free Card has this, why not Squats?


Presumably, as far as Gold values are concerned, the value of the Berserkers is already included in the Battlecar. By value, I'm meaning both cost and VP. Presumably they also have no BP. Even back in 2nd edition Warlords supplement, there was no listed BP, VP, or cost for the Berserkers included with the Battlecar aside from that of the Battlecar itself.

In other words, one does not receive a "Free card of Berserkers" so much as the Berserkers are a feature (or benefit?) of that particular Battlecar.


I'm sure you're right Magnus. I just think it could do with being tidied up in the rule book.
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
Agreed, having it specified would be best. The less ambiguity there is the better.
Author:  SuperMCDad [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
primarch wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
Thanks Magnus, I thought as much!

Primarch, would you care to comment from a Gold perspective? I'm sure other Squat players would be interested to know.


Hi!

Back in the day we assumed a detachment of berserkers came with them.

Of course that is an assumption with no supporting evidence it was ever meant to be the way. Just the way I have seen it played.

Primarch


Hey, no assumption necessary. I'm looking at the Warlords book and it states that 5 stands of berserkers are included for free. They also count as a separate detachment, so can operate independantly of the Land Train. What it doesn't mention is whether they are worth any VP's. I assume not, as they do not have a detachment card of their own with BP/VP's for the unit. I wouldn't expect the loss of berserker stands to count towards the Land Train BP.

Cheers, Dave.
Author:  The Bissler [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
SuperMCDad wrote:
primarch wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
Thanks Magnus, I thought as much!

Primarch, would you care to comment from a Gold perspective? I'm sure other Squat players would be interested to know.


Hi!

Back in the day we assumed a detachment of berserkers came with them.

Of course that is an assumption with no supporting evidence it was ever meant to be the way. Just the way I have seen it played.

Primarch


Hey, no assumption necessary. I'm looking at the Warlords book and it states that 5 stands of berserkers are included for free. They also count as a separate detachment, so can operate independantly of the Land Train. What it doesn't mention is whether they are worth any VP's. I assume not, as they do not have a detachment card of their own with BP/VP's for the unit. I wouldn't expect the loss of berserker stands to count towards the Land Train BP.

Cheers, Dave.


Cheers Dave, that's good to know! I still think it should be clarifed in the Net Epic Gold book as many people don't have the Warlords book and those that do shouldn't have to reference it. Gold is intended to be a complete system in itself (even though it is based on 2nd edition).

Definitely Beserkers should not count to Land Train BP but I think they should count as a seperate support card for VPs & Morale Value. Eldar Free Cards have BPs, VPs & Morale Value so don't see why a Squat freebie should be any different. :)
Author:  primarch [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Squat Beserker Battle Car
The Bissler wrote:
SuperMCDad wrote:
primarch wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
Thanks Magnus, I thought as much!

Primarch, would you care to comment from a Gold perspective? I'm sure other Squat players would be interested to know.


Hi!

Back in the day we assumed a detachment of berserkers came with them.

Of course that is an assumption with no supporting evidence it was ever meant to be the way. Just the way I have seen it played.

Primarch


Hey, no assumption necessary. I'm looking at the Warlords book and it states that 5 stands of berserkers are included for free. They also count as a separate detachment, so can operate independantly of the Land Train. What it doesn't mention is whether they are worth any VP's. I assume not, as they do not have a detachment card of their own with BP/VP's for the unit. I wouldn't expect the loss of berserker stands to count towards the Land Train BP.

Cheers, Dave.


Cheers Dave, that's good to know! I still think it should be clarifed in the Net Epic Gold book as many people don't have the Warlords book and those that do shouldn't have to reference it. Gold is intended to be a complete system in itself (even though it is based on 2nd edition).

Definitely Beserkers should not count to Land Train BP but I think they should count as a seperate support card for VPs & Morale Value. Eldar Free Cards have BPs, VPs & Morale Value so don't see why a Squat freebie should be any different. :)


Hi!

Updating the gold books again is way down the priority list at the moment, but yes, it should be updated.

Primarch
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