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In SM2, you couldn't embark and disembark in the same turn. On that basis, I suspect that it's probably a mistake in the Gold rules. I'd rather just revert to that rule, rather than to try to play around with distinguishing between formations.

For example, consider that Eldar Wave Serpents are a specialist transport, but are not part of an infantry formation in the Eldar army list. Why would Eldar Aspect Warriors not be able to benefit from embarking/disembarking from a dedicated transport, when Space Marines in Rhinos could because they were part of the same formation? That would be a very strange rule indeed.

Keep things simple, and just use the SM2 rule here is my advice.

I do not think it is a mistake, I seem to recollect the discussion from way back when. It costs 5cm move to do so though.

What do you think about the activation problem I highlighted?

The simple solution would be that when transports are bought for troops they can both act in the one activation as per Magnus' "B" suggestion.

If I remember SM2 rightly, one side moved everything first and then the other side made all of their moves. This meant that if you had transport vehicles, there was no chance that your transport could be jumped by the enemy before the infantry had a chance to get out. But now we have the situation with the activations system that you could move your transports, then the opponent gains the chance to use an activation where bikes or the like can catch your transport and the troops within cannot disembark.

Author:	The Bissler [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Transport rules
In the Net Epic rules it seems to indicate that troops can embark and disembark on the same turn. I don't think this should be the case as it is impossible for troops who do not come with transport vehicles to do this (the troops count as one activation, transports a second, they cannot both be activated at once). Is this an error in the book, or is it time for a change in the rules?

Author:	The Bissler [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
See example 2 on page 27 of the Net Epic Gold rules for this...

Author:	primarch [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
Hi! Probably a mistake. Primarch

Author:	MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
I feel that it is the assumption that formations that do not come with Transports generally do not use them, and thus would not be as accustomed to using them as other troops are. Also, most armies have both mechanized and non-mechanized versions of formations, so it shouldn't normally be a problem. Still, there could be times when it is. I can see two ways to deal with this. A. This is a benefit of having your Transports in the same formation. The troops in Formations that include transports are better trained in their use and as a result may both embark and disembark in the same turn. Thus formations that do not include their own transports may not both do both on the same activation. This would mean that the player would have to plan ahead a bit more when building their army, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. B. Make a minor change to the rules to say something like: "When you embark troops into transport(s) that are not a part of their Formation, and the transports are not a part of a Formation that includes other troops, you may immediately activate that transport Formation as a part of the same activation. The embarked troops may disembark as normal. (see also page 17: Special Rule: Troops & Transports)" [Probably as a "Special Rule" entry on or near page 19, or as an addition to the aforementioned Special Rule on page 17 and without the reference to itself.]

Author:	primarch [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
Hi! One thing is for sure, Platinum will benefit a LOT from this type of discussion. Primarch

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Transport rules http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28106	Page 1 of 3

Author:	The Bissler [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
These are both good suggestions Magnus. It will be interesting to see what the rest of the community thinks about this.

Author:	Irisado [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
In SM2, you couldn't embark and disembark in the same turn. On that basis, I suspect that it's probably a mistake in the Gold rules. I'd rather just revert to that rule, rather than to try to play around with distinguishing between formations. For example, consider that Eldar Wave Serpents are a specialist transport, but are not part of an infantry formation in the Eldar army list. Why would Eldar Aspect Warriors not be able to benefit from embarking/disembarking from a dedicated transport, when Space Marines in Rhinos could because they were part of the same formation? That would be a very strange rule indeed. Keep things simple, and just use the SM2 rule here is my advice.

Author:	@ringo [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
I do not think it is a mistake, I seem to recollect the discussion from way back when. It costs 5cm move to do so though. Its been atound since 2002, at least!

Author:	The Bissler [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
Irisado wrote: In SM2, you couldn't embark and disembark in the same turn. On that basis, I suspect that it's probably a mistake in the Gold rules. I'd rather just revert to that rule, rather than to try to play around with distinguishing between formations. For example, consider that Eldar Wave Serpents are a specialist transport, but are not part of an infantry formation in the Eldar army list. Why would Eldar Aspect Warriors not be able to benefit from embarking/disembarking from a dedicated transport, when Space Marines in Rhinos could because they were part of the same formation? That would be a very strange rule indeed. Keep things simple, and just use the SM2 rule here is my advice. If I remember SM2 rightly, one side moved everything first and then the other side made all of their moves. This meant that if you had transport vehicles, there was no chance that your transport could be jumped by the enemy before the infantry had a chance to get out. But now we have the situation with the activations system that you could move your transports, then the opponent gains the chance to use an activation where bikes or the like can catch your transport and the troops within cannot disembark. This is my biggest problem with things as they stand, more so than whether troops can embark and disembark on the same turn (although I think that rule is flawed also, sorry Ringo!).

Author:	primarch [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
@ringo wrote: I do not think it is a mistake, I seem to recollect the discussion from way back when. It costs 5cm move to do so though. Hi! I remember that too now, but I don't remember if that was the final decision. I suspect it was. Primarch

Author:	The Bissler [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
What do you think about the activation problem I highlighted? The simple solution would be that when transports are bought for troops they can both act in the one activation as per Magnus' "B" suggestion.

Author:	primarch [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
The Bissler wrote: What do you think about the activation problem I highlighted? The simple solution would be that when transports are bought for troops they can both act in the one activation as per Magnus' "B" suggestion. Hi! I think that would be the easiest way to handle it. In other words when a formation is being transported, it activates as part of the transport formation and when they disembark they act like to separate ones. Seems intuitive. Primarch

Author:	The Bissler [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
I find this suggestion most agreeable.

Author:	Irisado [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
The Bissler wrote: If I remember SM2 rightly, one side moved everything first and then the other side made all of their moves. This meant that if you had transport vehicles, there was no chance that your transport could be jumped by the enemy before the infantry had a chance to get out. But now we have the situation with the activations system that you could move your transports, then the opponent gains the chance to use an activation where bikes or the like can catch your transport and the troops within cannot disembark. You are remembering correctly . I thought, however, that for NetEpic if there are troops riding inside a transport, would they not count as one formation for the purposes of activation? For example, if I move my aforementioned Wave Serpents, the Eldar unit inside would disembark and take their action as part of the same move. That's how it worked for SM2, even if the orders were different, so far as I recall. If that rule has changed for NetEpic, then it has completely escaped my attention. As a result, what has been suggested regarding activations would make perfect sense. I thought that it was already part of the rules though.

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Author:	MagnusIlluminus [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Transport rules
Technically, it is not currently a part of the RAW. As the rules are now, to use your example, you would move your Wave Serpent to where you wanted the troops to disembark, then your foe gets to activate a formation (possibly destroying or surrounding your Wave Serpents with the troops inside), then you get to activate the troops and have them disembark assuming they have survived and have space to do so. This is a side-effect of the alternating activation system. It seems that most people are already doing it as per "B" above anyway, so it should probably be inserted into the rules. With one addition that I just realized that I overlooked. To the end of "B" above, add the following: "Also, when you activate a Formation that is transporting models from different Formation(s), you may have any or all of the models from the transported Formation(s) disembark as a part of the same activation." Adding the above will clarify the point and cover models like Dropships as well.