Comeon Warhead. Tell me that I am correct and you like everything I suggested!!
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| Forward Obersvers http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17965 |
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| Author: | Pettan [ Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Comparison from different books Quote: Squats Forward Observer 10 cm 6+ 0 Bolt Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Special Stand + Rhino 100 pts Imperial Guard Forward Observer 10 cm - +2 Bolt Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Special 2 Stands + Rhino 100 pts Adeptus Mechanicus Forward Observer 10 cm - 0 Bolt Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Special 2 Stands + Rhino 50 Pts Elysian Forward Observer 10 cm - +2 Bolt Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Special 2 Observer stands + Rhino 100 Pts Eldar Forward Observer 10 cm - +0 Shuriken Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Special Forward Observer stand + Command Falcon Stand 150 Pts Marines Forward Observer 10 cm 5+ +2 Bolt Pistol 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Special Forward Observer stand + Command Rhino Stand 50 Pts Chaos Forward Observer 10 cm 6+ +2 Bolt Pistols 25 cm 1 5+ 0 HQ, Stealth, Forward Observer Forward Observer stand and Rhino 100 Looking at these lines from different rulebooks a few things stand out what I would like to change. 1. Squat FO should cost 50 instead of 100. 2. Imperial Guard FO should have caf 0 instead of +2. 3. Squats have Stealth but it should say so in the armylist also. 4. Eldar FO should cost 100 instead of 150. (other FO costs 50 but they pay abit more for their Falcon). 5. Chaos FO should cost 50. 6. Elysian should have caf 0 instead of +2. 7. Adeptus Mechanicus should cost 100 instead of 50. 8. Chaos Rhino should be command. Rules from Gold. Quote: Special Ability: Forward Observer While any unit may call in an indirect barrage, many armies have specially trained and equipped spotters. These troops are capable of relaying precise coordinates and deciding on the appropriate ammunition to use. Any barrage directed by a Forward Observer will scatter 1D6 cm (instead of 2D6). All FO units are HQ units and have the Stealth ability. FOs are also the only units capable of calling in an Off-Board Barrage. A single FO stand may call in any number of indirect barrages against any number of targets, or a single Off-Board Barrage. FOs may not request fire if they are involved in Close Combat, and may not both call in fire and shoot. To call in an Off-Board barrage, the FO must make a communications roll of 3+ on a D6. If the roll is successful then the barrage arrives anywhere in the FO’s line of sight. Failure indicates the spotter has given the battery the wrong coordinates, or the battery is preoccupied with other things. Multiple Off-Board Barrages do not combine fire – they are resolved separately (including separate scatter rolls), even if they are called in on the same target by different stands belonging to the same Forward Observer Team. I would like to change so that one observer can observe onlt ONE spot/round (Suggestion: Imperial guard might be able to spot 2 since they are 2 stands) This spotted area/specific spot can be used for as many units as you like. An example: An Imperial Guard FO observe a detechmant of cannons of khorne. Barrages from the whole army can be placed between two of the cannons. Scatter is 1d6 cm All for now //Peter |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
There are some small quibbles about the FObs stats but I'm more interested in making the rules for them less complex. Some of us have to drink beer and eat munchies as well as regulate the day to day bodily tasks like breathing while we read the rules. I have to dedicate think capacity to rules like these. I just about keel over from hypoxia when I try to use FObs. Also, the VP thing isn't great. It lacks any kind of style and doesn't really work other than in the obvious intention of making people not use them. So why have them if they aren't to be used? Mindboggling. |
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| Author: | Pettan [ Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Comeon Warhead. Tell me that I am correct and you like everything I suggested!!
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| Author: | Warhead [ Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Well, I agree about the one target per FObs stand. Why's the Eldar one such a pussy, wouldn't he have Ranger training and such? Chaos SM and Chaos Cultist should be separate. CSM should be a Vet with Vet stats and the Cultist more like the IG. 2x stands and really crap stats. The rest of it seems fine, no obvious issues. Do Ork Orbital Rokkits still get the 12" temp? Include Warboss/Warlord or Boss Gargant for Ork FOb's. |
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| Author: | Pettan [ Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Quote: Why's the Eldar one such a pussy, wouldn't he have Ranger training and such? Quote: Chaos SM and Chaos Cultist should be separate. CSM should be a Vet with Vet stats I see that the FO has a save of 6+ so he has to be a Chaos Marine. Should be +3 caf then.. In the rules it says: Quote: Forward Observer: Both speed and accuracy are vital when calling for artillery support, and the Imperium has expertly trained Forward Observers to aid their artillery batteries. They are HQ units and have the Stealth ability. Adding point. 9. Chaos FO should have caf +3 /P |
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| Author: | netepic [ Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Quote: (Pettan @ Feb. 18 2010, 23:06 ) Quote: Why's the Eldar one such a pussy, wouldn't he have Ranger training and such? Depends if it is a single man? Marine, cultist, ranger, they'd all be pretty lame in combat if they were found. It seems a tad silly that five men are required to laser light/spot a target unless they are lighting up multiple units in a detachment. If they argument is that it is one man and bodyguards then up the stats to mirror that of his guards. If that is the case then, I'd want stormtrooper guards for IG, tacticals for Marine, rangers for Eldar, etc. |
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| Author: | Pettan [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
No comments about the suggested changes in stats? Where are all the members of this forum? Wake up guys and smell the flowers. Or something 
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| Author: | Warhead [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
I made my points. However, as to how the unit should be thought of I would say they would always be highly trained and elite individuals in small groups. That's how I see them anyway. Guardians with Binoculars... I think not. Ranger with Binoculars, now we're talking. Ask L4 about Forward Observers and I'm sure he'd say they are very well trained and normally a small unit. Or look up Google. |
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| Author: | ulric [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Quote: I'm sure he'd say they are very well trained and normally a small unit. A scout sniper or something like that? |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Well, IIRC in Desert Storm they used SAS behind enemy lines before the kick off to spot for Artillery and air strikes. |
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| Author: | sanjuro [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Well, to be honest I rarely use FOs. For 100 points you get a unit that only slightly enhances your artillery fire (only one d6 scatter sounds better than it is, and the unit normally cannot see the important targets anyway). On top of that, in most of my games they were charged in the first or second turn. I think they are ok as they are. Should they only be able to spot one target per turn they would become pretty useless. Don't forget that even in an unguided indirect fire you will get a 1/3 third chance to be on target. |
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| Author: | ulric [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Quote: Well, IIRC in Desert Storm they used SAS behind enemy lines before the kick off to spot for Artillery and air strikes. Read Fist of god from Forsyth?  Quote: Well, to be honest I rarely use FOs. For 100 points you get a unit that only slightly enhances your artillery fire (only one d6 scatter sounds better than it is, and the unit normally cannot see the important targets anyway). On top of that, in most of my games they were charged in the first or second turn. I think they are ok as they are. Should they only be able to spot one target per turn they would become pretty useless. Don't forget that even in an unguided indirect fire you will get a 1/3 third chance to be on target. have to agree here Quote: I rarely use FOs me too maybe give them a try |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
I like them, The scatter mod is pretty good. Eldar FOb's are lethal. The bit I hate is the crippling VP awarded per use. |
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| Author: | scream [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
My thoughts: First, Elysian FO was based on IG FO stats, that's why the detachment contains 2 stands + 1 rhino for 100 points. FO in rhino is useless for squats, they have access to Observation Ballons, way better. FO for Marines? For the whirlwinds ? Who play whirwinds ? In last tournament, an IG player fielded a FO. He hides it in a cover, using stealth ability but as the rhino is not stealth, an Eldar Vampire landed close to the rhino and less than 15 cm from FO. Next activation, Some guardians disembark from Vampire and engaged FO in CC. Stealth sucked. |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Forward Obersvers |
Space Marines need Orbital Barrage because they have weak artillery. They have ship a plenty designed for this very purpose. However, what is killing the FOb choice for Marines is more to do with the DAMN VP COST!!! Stealth if used correctly can work well. As can the FOb's. Why didn't he Snap Fire the Vampire with all those Snap Fire units we all have an abundance of these days? 
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