Tactical Command
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NetEpic Gold Print Version
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16964		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  primarch [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Hi!

Moscovian has been kind enough to give me the information on how to best make a print version and avoid any violations of GW IP and such.

The main points of no copying GW art, pictures or illustrations was no problem since its inception netepic gold required original art, pictures and illustrations. All were scratch made and original, so no problems there.

The text was entirely re-written, so no problems there either.

Proper thanks and attention to the use of GW models and such will be included.

There is ONE sticking point. It is regards to the Slann book.

As most know the slann/dracon/necron book, does not adhere to the GW background and more importantly there are no models from GW that have been made. This army book and list is mainly a proxy army.

To be able to include this book, we either have to:

a) produce sculpts, paint them for use in the book (NOT LIKELY....)
b) include the book with only illustrations/graphic representations (no pictures of non-GW models).
c) don't include this book in the overall printing (I'm not going with this one...)

So basically, if we want a printed version we need to do "b". I could always do a separate down-loadable document with proxy suggestions.

Would people be okay with this?

When Moscovian originally told me about including the book with mini pictures for the slann, I wasn't too inclined to do it, but the reality is this book has NO fixed model use. Just suggestions. So just illustrations and drawn pictures with no mention of non-GW proxies isn't that big of a deal.

Thoughts?

Primarch
Author:  Volstagg [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
I gather you are planning on doing all the army lists in one book,
along with the core rules...?
Thats going to be an expensive book!

Illustrations should be fine;
can't imagine anyone objecting.
Author:  Ulmo [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
b) sounds fine.
And I suspect that most of your proxy won't be easily available anyway, so an illustration precising how the model should look would be enough.

A separated document with proxy suggestions is still a good idea.

By te way, great job so far !
Author:  Moscovian [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
To put some of this in perspective, check out my sig link and look at the Raiders book; specifically look at the models for the Dark Eldar and Necrons.  There are two types of models that are in these sections:
1. Models that are GW proxies or GW kit-bashed (made mostly of GW parts)
2. Parts that are scratch built (not made of non-GW parts)

Now, if you have a tiny little gun from another company's model line and you glue it on a GW model, does that make the model invalid?  No, I don't think so.  Most of us have bitz boxes filled with parts from other company lines and we probably couldn't ID all of them.  Just use common sense.  If you can ID the part, most likely somebody else can.  Unfortunately this is the only way we can satisfy GW's Intellectual Property guidelines.

My feeling is this: if the Slann is that important to the NetEpic project, there should be enough fans to put together some models that will satisfy the above criteria.  I encourage y'all to help out even if it is a single model.
Author:  zap123 [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
I'm not sure I follow this one.  "Because this book has nothing to do with GW fluff we can't use models from any other company" doesn't seem to make sense?  In a reference for my countrymen, please explain.

In any case, the Necron bit has been rejigged to reflect (perhaps somewhat vaguely) GW fluff now, and I'd imagine all the models for them would be GW infantry and some specially "sculpted" units done by some of the clever local members.  The Slann and Dracon don't follow GW fluff (because they don't exist).

Clearly it would be clearly very difficult to make Dracon, Exodus or True Slann armies using GW figures....or are we not allowed to do this?
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Zap123, in this particular case this has nothing to do with the fluff and everything to do with the models being used.

Games Workshop's Intellectual Property (IP) Guidelines dictate that their products cannot be displayed in the same document as another company's product.  So if we were making a supplement, we could not use GW models alongside Exodus Wars models.  This is why when you look through Raiders in the modeling section, there are no non-GW proxies being used.  

In a broader sense, there is nothing that we should use that is "inconsistent with the GW universe".  While Slann might technically fall under this requirement, I don't believe that they are looking to eliminate ideas for other races.  This is more specifically aimed at keeping the IP pure.  In other words, don't depict Space Marines as hugging Eldar children, Imperial Guardsmen joining the Necron army, Orks building sleek aircraft with no seams or rivets, and so on.  

Getting back to the Slann (and the Dracon for that matter), the ideal circumstance would be to have those models built out of GW parts, or scratch built.  There are some clever ways to work within these confines, however, so not all hope is lost.   For example, we are talking about an image, not necessarily a model.  If the image is actually a CGI representation that was originally made, then that would work.  If we only had one model and it was copy-pasted five times and made to look like it was on a stand, that would work too.  Or there might be some artistic individual out here who isn't associated with any company who crafts/molds a few (or a few hundred) of these little fellows and then those show up as scratch-builts.

If it can't be done, you are no worse off than you were before Primarch and I started discussing this.  The whole idea though is to produce a printed copy that would be a reasonable cost and be of high quality.
Author:  Colonel Kane [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
O.k Just my 2 cents worth really. I think it might be best to have the minis part of the slann book as a seperate doc. The slann and I think even the dracon were at one point part of the 40k verse. Way back in RT. Yes I cut my teeth on RT. So GW shouldn't have an issue with it, but there is always someone who may. That is just my opinion. I don't plan on buy this book, I just don't have that kinda cash.... none at the moment really. anyways. So do what you will. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in to the ring and watch the dogs for it.
Author:  heroatlarge [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
So if there were to be a published version of any part of the rules or army books how would this happen ? I at one time was thinking of creating a book for myself using a website called lulu.com.  I would think that using a place like this could solve a number of issues.  Like... not having to be concerned about publishing a copy that has not been paid for by someone since there is a Print-on-demand option.  And different types of bindings could be accomodated as different types can be created.
:D
Author:  primarch [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Quote: (heroatlarge @ Oct. 23 2009, 17:52 )

So if there were to be a published version of any part of the rules or army books how would this happen ? I at one time was thinking of creating a book for myself using a website called lulu.com.  I would think that using a place like this could solve a number of issues.  Like... not having to be concerned about publishing a copy that has not been paid for by someone since there is a Print-on-demand option.  And different types of bindings could be accomodated as different types can be created.
:D

Hi!

Actually it may come to this. I'm not particularly keen on bending over backwards for GW on this.

My original thoughts are much like yours, using print on demand services. All issues are sidestepped this way since all I have do is provide the different pdf books and the end user decides what method of printing he wants.

I threw the question out to see what people thought and if it was worth the hassle.

I guess if your a netepic fan you already have a low tolerance for GW impositions. I have already complied with the big ones like not copying their illustration, pictures and graphics. The text is entirely rewritten. Standard disclaimers are included.

I'm just not convinced that I should short change the slann to get a printed book GW may approve of when people can make it themselves the way it was originally intended.

As always, I'll go with what the majority netepic fans would like.

Primarch
Author:  GlynG [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Throwing some ideas out for you guys: could any Warmaster lizardmen models work as proxies or basises for conversion? WM Skinks? Perhaps some warhammer lizard swarm lizards as large lizard-beasties, if they have that sort of thing? (not read the list).
Author:  zap123 [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Yeah, you can possibly use GW products for everything in the Slann/Necron book....it would take a lot of work in some cases but it would be possible.  Some of the proxies already use GW stuff too, so it isn't absolutely everything.

Cut up some Warmaster Lizardman stuff for the dracon and perhaps the Exodus Slann.  Use 40K photos of Necron stuff for necrons (Monolith, Tomb Spider for the Titan etc, FW Pylon) and Chaos Androids and modded 40K scarabs for infantry etc.  For True Slann, anyone out there got a good collection of RT era 40K stuff?  We could mod a couple of the original Slann for the knight class units, the Mr Blobby original Dreadnought might work for the Komodo/Dragonking and perhaps a Robot for the Razorfang.  We could blob up old plastic Marine robots for the Infantry class battlesuits.  

Alterntively, can we take existing proxies and photoshop them so they are cartoon outlines?  Would that pass muster?
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
I stumbled across an 'unreleased space slann' in my inbox from ebay uk this morning (item number 280415224929 if anyone's curious) so I now have more idea what one looks like (I have a favourite search for 'warhammer' and 'unreleased' out of curiousity to see what they never released down the years).

With it being a tall thin creature standing on tips toes possibly converted FW Kroot could be another proxy option? With a rounded off heads and gun swops from imperial guardsmen or whatever? Would never be practical or cost effective to convert for a whole army, but all you need is one stand of each type of model for the unit photos really.
Author:  zap123 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  NetEpic Gold Print Version
Kroot don't really have that intelligent frog look about them  :smile: .  I guess some of the originals did look a little more gekko than frog, but definitely reptile not avian.  

We could use some of the Tau stuff I guess....but perhaps replace the "hoof".
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