Hmm, while in a 6000 point army I have used two Windrider Hosts, I think you will have difficulty here if you are required to take objectives in buildings. You need some troops. Even cheap stuff is good. I like Swooping Hawks and support them with a Warlock using Eldritch Storm to expose and disrupt defending troops. It's never failed so far.

You need some balance in this army. The second Windrider Host, though powerful takes up points that can be used elsewhere. What ever happened to the free Wild Rider Squad? Gahh!

The doomweaver is good in numbers but with a 4000 point army I would stick with two or three batteries max. A must for any Eldar Army are the Wave Serpents and I try to kit my lot out with as many as I can spare the points for. I keep mine independent from troop squads and use them to disrupt enemy formations.

Don't forget, you have your own Objectives and artillery to defend too. I like the Spirit Host. Guardian Hosts are fine but I like the Dreads and Wraiths personally and you get another Warlock in this Host and it wont break until he dies.

Knights are... ok. They tend to get shot up a lot but at least they look cool while doing it. I prefer pop-up units and take Falcon Hosts (as you have done) when able.

I like the twin Tremor Cannon Titan weapon fit (do these combine their attacks to -4TSM?) but I normally use them on a Phantom and leave my Warlock with Pulsars or/and Psi-Cannon. I always use two Wing Lasers and never the Missile Launchers as they are not good enough IMO.

One more question. Where is your Forward Observer? Every army MUST have one if only to spot for your Doomweavers. Ok, so I didn't include one below but if I could I would have.

4000 points Saim Hann Eldar War Host.
I've played this one throughout a campaign and it did very well. Three games three wins.

Windrider Host - 650
Swooping Hawks - 150
Swooping Hawks - 150
Dark Reapers (Always - for air defence) - 250
* Warlock on Bike - 125
* Avatar - free and doesn't take a space

Sprit Host - 500 (Remember you get a Warlock here)
* Warlock Titan - 720
(Two wing lasers, two tremor cannon)

Falcon Warhost - 450
Doomweaver Squadron - 150
Doomweaver Squadron - 150
Doomweaver Squadron - 150
Wave Serpent Squadron - 150
* Exarchs - 400 points

3995 points used.

Hope this helps...

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

oops forgot to add the tempest squad!

2 tremors means autohit if I target on the same stand, unsure if its tsm -4 then... but I were thinking of using them for demolishion work as they autohit buildings with -6 tsm =D
also they are pretty cheap =)
which is why there isnt any infantry included as of yet, but Im thinking of adding some CC specialist incase I cant demolish any house with objectives on it..

darkreapers while good feels to static for a saim hann army.

my Spirit host stands will be included in a Iyanden army so they arent available,

the avatar will ofcourse be in all armies but as he doesnt take any special card place and is free I omited him...

I've also been toying with using las cannon wingmounts instead of the missile launchers, 100p more but I do have those spare points to use... *edit* DONE!

I havent played with forward observers and dont know how they work and so far all my armies are done without a single optional unit which is why they are emited, besides if I change the wingmounts my only barrage weapons in this army will be the doomweavers which allways scatter anyhow

First Iyanden Army test (though I feel its way bad it feels very Iyanden)

500 Iyanden Wraith Host
700 * Warlock Titan 2x Psychic Lance + 2x Lascannon wings
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism

500 Iyanden Wraith Host
700 * Warlock Titan 2x Psychic Lance + 2x Lascannon wings

450 Falcon warhost
400 * Exarches
150 Falcon Detachment
150 Striking Scorpions
150 Swooping hawks
200 Jetbike Squadron

== 4000p

1 Wraith host + Exarches goes meched in the Falcons
1 wraith host + striking scorpions garrisons whatever they can
the meager Reaction force of Swoops and jetbikes tries to go after weak targets or counter fast charges..
and the warlock titans do their thing on advance fire most likely
with the warlocks mindlocking or eldritch storming...
not sure what the poor fireprisms are gonna do =)

It feels like a Iyanden army with no guardians and only a few  aspects / bikes for support with the bulk of the army consisting of Wraithbone in the Wraithguard/ Wraitlord/ Warlock Titans

prolly crap though?
(and im 4 stands of wraithguard short... perhaps I could base them 4 to a stand.. that should net me 2 stands more, and I think I have some more lying around on sprues... hmmm)

Also the last army will prolly be an Ulthiwe army (as I have all the guardians left =) perhaps with supporting Alaitoc Scouts somehow ... I still have 6 firprism, 8 waveserpents 3 nightwings, 3 firestorms, 6 warwalkers, 4 warphunters and 6 tempests  2 phantom titans and various aspects and harlies, a shitload of vibrocannons and brightlance batteries (are they usefull?)

I'll deal with them one by one:

SQUATS

750 Warlord Brotherhood
100 * Living Ancestor

400 Grand Battery
150 Thudd gun Battery

700 Air Attack Corps
500 * Colossus

600 Guildbike Company
600 Guildbike Company
200 Bike squadron

As a general comment, I'd find it cheesy and very annoying to face 2 Guild Biker companies in a 4000 point force, and adding an extra bike detachment is really stretching it.  They will also get eaten by most titans as  you'll lose 2/3rds to Titan defense, and the infantry get no outnumbering bonus so you'll have to have a great roll and your opponent a really bad roll for you to win.  As to the specific units, the Grand Battery is really dud, so I'd almost forgive the 2 Guild Bikers seeng you took the Grand Battery .  You also have no air defense.  I'd ditch the Grand Battery, extra Thudds and the second Guild Bikers Co for a Gyrocopter Company, Goliath Company and if you can squeeze them in, some Thunderfires.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

Ok, next:

Saim-Hann

650 Windrider host
125 * Warlock on bike

650 Windrider host
125 * Warlock on bike
500 Tempest Squad

450 Falcon host
720 * Warlock Titan with 2x Tremor Cannon & 2x Winglasers

150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Striking Scorpions Squad

== 3970 p

- Ok, sorry, but I have to call this.  This is a really cheddar army.  Perhaps you have more tolerant players but if I dropped this on the table mine would at best refuse to play and at worst suggest where I could stick it and offer a free demonstration.

Constructive advice, drop a Wind Rider co and at least 2 Doomweaver sqds and add a Defender Warhost.  Get some Nightwings or a Firestorm and buy the Scorpions some Wave Serpents.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

And last:

First Iyanden Army test (though I feel its way bad it feels very Iyanden)

500 Iyanden Wraith Host
700 * Warlock Titan 2x Psychic Lance + 2x Lascannon wings
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism

500 Iyanden Wraith Host
700 * Warlock Titan 2x Psychic Lance + 2x Lascannon wings

450 Falcon warhost
400 * Exarches
150 Falcon Detachment
150 Striking Scorpions
150 Swooping hawks
200 Jetbike Squadron

== 4000p

Hmmm, does go to the spirit of an Iyanden army.  You've wound up with a ton of firepower and still quite a few troops.  I'm assuming the Hawks are bodyguards for the Exarchs, so you dont really have many options for taking objectives though.  I'd drop the Falcon co and Jetbike Sqd for a Jetbike host and some Wave Serpents for your Scorpions.

I'm not so sure on your Titan loadouts either...I presume that's what they have and you play WYSIWYG?  Psycannon are awesome against Chaos and do well against Orks and 'Nids, but against just about anyone else they are not that great a choice, even on a Warlock, and 2 makes your titan too short ranged...it will cop a ton of return fire and you'll duff the Holofield saves eventually.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

thanks for the help / critique / suggestions zap!

starting with the squat army I guess we allways played cheesy as hell on tournaments in SM2 =)
though the guildbikers are the only way of realy running the squats with the models I have, as Im seriously lacking in -TSM firepower, and the grand batteries are fun if not good for their points atleast they can somewhat kill off some models in a horde army, thinning them down for the bikers,
I guess I could squeeze in the gyrocopter squad I have instead of some bikers and my single goliath.. hmm... from what I remember squats have hideously hard time against good save armies like IG and nids with all those +1 monsters that are pretty much impossible to kill when the airships and colossus are dead.. ofcourse the colossus didnt have a tohit chart then... that might make it abit better

the Saim-Hann army, as I said, it should feel like Saim-Hann which means footslogging is for loosers with poor eye-limb coordination.. thats why I have (almost) no troops... if I had had 2 reverant titans I would have used them instead but I dont own any of those =/, I realy liked how it turned out though, with all that speed, perhaps I should remove the striking scorpions for something with speed or perhaps some swoops though..., not having hardly anything to take objectives in buildings with (without first wasting the building with the tremorcannons =) I were hoping that would be a big minus, and I had no idea it would be that cheezy, as I havent played any using netepic, and from the battlereps I've seen most people seem to use more terrain/forest/buildings then I remember from tournies, which makes them better with all that cover... I'll have to think hard on how to make them worse without loosing that Saim-Hann feeling =), remember I still have to make the guardian heavy Ulthiwe army with the stuff I have left =)
What in the Saim-Hann is it that makes it the most cheezy? I have no AA, no Infantry, and I should take a hefty toll on my bikes as soon as they show their faces as most likely my opponent will be on FF orders =)

the Iyanden army:
yes, I do have 2 warlocks with 2xpsycannon allready on em =/, well its sorta iyanden, you need many warlocks for all those wraith =) so why not use em as weapons too eh? I guess the titan will have to be on chargeorders with the -1tohit power active the first round to gain some good position *shrug*
the striking scorpions were supposed to be the bodyguards for the exarches, with the swoops ready to deepstrike on something vunerable.
I were thinking of using the falcons first round to charge in to deploy the wraithguard with the exarches and strikingscorpions somewhere, with the wraitlords as cover, perhaps its naive though...
I'll think about how to change it and still feel Iyanden!

I don't find it too cheesy per say but I don't see it as balanced or wise to have so many Bikers/Jetbikes even though they do look great. I wouldn't refuse to play against you. I would however adjust my play to teach you a lesson next game.   Making an Order Of Battle is part of Epic and so long as it is within the rules to do so I think it is acceptable to chose what you like. Without comment. However, without balance how are you going to adapt to the enemy?

I'll have to think hard on how to make them worse without loosing that Saim-Hann feeling

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

thanks warhead, I do have 3 nightwing models, I guess I could add em, and swap out the striking scorpions for anouther squad of swoops

and without further ado, here is an Alaitoc army, no titans and for some reason lots of aspects...

900 Tempest host
150 * Harlequins
100 Alatioc Rangers
100 Alatioc Rangers
250 Dark Reapers
250 Dark Reapers
150 Firestorms

450 Falcon Warhost
150 * Harlequins
150 Waveserpent squadron
150 Waveserpent squadron
150 Striking scorpions
150 Striking scorpions
50 Fire prism

450 Guardian Warhost
125 Dire Avengers
125 Dire Avengers
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism

4000 p

will prolly be beaten to scrap as its very shortrange, and only the striking scorps have waveserpent protection..

perhaps I should change the  guardian host to a windrider host ally and loose 1 fireprism to add some needed speed instead of the footsloggers... damn it, Im going to end up with lots of guardian models not used at all =D

or an Ultiwe army with:

450 Guardian warhost
750 * Phantom titan with 2x pulsers + 2x lascannons (WYSIWG)
150 Storm Guardians
150 Storm Guardians
150 Storm Guardians

450 Guardian warhost
625 * Phantom titan with Heatlance + D-Cannon + 2x lascannons (WYSIWG)
150 Storm Guardians
150 Storm Guardians
150 Storm Guardians

and whatever leftover vees I have, like nightspinners perhaps...

or I scrap em all and make more vanilla eldar armies instead with 1000p max Codex Eldar hosts.. that can
function as allies

The old SM2 style Wind Rider host was always a "play-balance joke".  1100 points worth of Jetbike detachments for 650 points was way out there.  I know the Vypers have been detuned in NE, but on the other hand skimmers targetting protection is better under NE, so all in all the Saim-Hann Wind Riders are still every bit the bargain they were in the old days.  Taking 2 of them in 4K is pretty dodgy IMO.  The 4 Doomweaver sqds would also be called into question here.  

I guess back in the day we were lucky enough to have a large player pool so cheese wasn't the accepted norm, and most of the guys I play now are from that era.  The army is legal and if min-maxing is the accepted norm for your area then it's a pretty uber army....it will probably steamroll most forces first time round....until they min-max against it.  To really max out the army I'd drop that Titan configuration for a Phantom, twin Pulsars, Lascannon/Flamewind wings for the same points.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

and without further ado, here is an Alaitoc army, no titans and for some reason lots of aspects...

900 Tempest host
150 * Harlequins
100 Alatioc Rangers
100 Alatioc Rangers
250 Dark Reapers
250 Dark Reapers
150 Firestorms

450 Falcon Warhost
150 * Harlequins
150 Waveserpent squadron
150 Waveserpent squadron
150 Striking scorpions
150 Striking scorpions
50 Fire prism

450 Guardian Warhost
125 Dire Avengers
125 Dire Avengers
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism
50 Fire prism

4000 p

will prolly be beaten to scrap as its very shortrange, and only the striking scorps have waveserpent protection..

perhaps I should change the  guardian host to a windrider host ally and loose 1 fireprism to add some needed speed instead of the footsloggers... damn it, Im going to end up with lots of guardian models not used at all =D

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

been thinking of doing it as a BielTan with Alaitoc Allies instead
but I rather like having the 3 Falcons in seperate Detachments / Activations, perhaps that doesnt work as planned, I'll check it out more later.

still thinking of making 1 Biel Tan, 1 Alaitoc, 1 Saim-Hann, 1 Iyanden  <= 1000p ally armies to use as base instead and from that try and build armies, to get them more balanced while still being able to paint them in their traditional codex colors (well the Biel Tan Im not sure of how to make phionex lord stands though, but the having a company card that isnt broken as easily should be awesome!, perhaps 2x Dark Reapers + Swoops.. the only downside is that you cant put them in waveserpents as the extra Phoenix lord stand doesnt FIT! *grrrr*)

I would have thought you'd have more than enough activations, and need a big, hard to break company more than extra flexibility.  A Falcon not on first fire is a waste  

I haven't had a chance to try out many of the possible combos for the Biel-Tan Phoenix host.  2 Avengers and a Reaper worked nicely, and 3 Shining Spears is lots of fun.  I have wanted to try 3 Swooping Hawks (not enough models tho...the Tau player keeps nicking my Hawks to use as Vespid); and a mix of Banshees and Scorpions would be fun too.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

still tinkering away on the eldar codex armies as allies concept but not getting anywhere,
so I made a Dark Angel army instead

1000 Deathwing Company
 75 * Chaplain

500 Ravenwing
 50 * Apothecary

1000 Devastator Company
725 * Warlord Titan with Chainfist/Wrecker/Fire Control Center/Plasma Cannon
150 Tarantula Battery

450 Scout Company
 50 * Apothecary

== 4000 points

unsure on effectiveness, but thought it would look kinda cool and fluffy with the deathwing in bonewhite and the ravenwing in a blackish scheme and the scouts in green/white scheme
1st and 2nd Companies with the support of the 9th and 10th company =)

coolio or Cheese-O ?

And a Spacewolfs Army

950 Great Company with Terminators
100 * Wolfpriest

950 Great Company with Terminators
100 * Wolfpriest

750 Landraider Company
725 * Warlord Titan with Chainfist/Wrecker/Fire Control Center/Plasma Cannon
175 Bloodclaw Attackbike Detachment
250 Bloodclaw Landspeeder Detachment

== 4000p

hopefully this army shouldnt be TOO good or bad either? poor marines if their Titan support goes in the first turn by some titan killing deathstrike missile or other =D

Dark Angels - Cool & fluffy factor high, though 25% of your army in one company with a break of 10 is a punt.  You'd need to play cautiously but it would probably be pretty good.

Space Wolves - Again, a nice fluffy army.  Great companies are awesome with the Termies but you are going to struggle on the firepower front.  Run it and do a batrep...I'd like to see how this fares.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy