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plague tower improvement |
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Napalm
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Post subject: plague tower improvement  Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:54 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:16 am
Posts: 654
Location: Paris, France
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I think the pretorian rules for the plague tower is not that advantaging: yes, it's harder to kill, but if crippled you cannot repair it with a demon card (you can get it killed a lot and save it with your cards without problemes), and the worst: in does not double speed in charge: I don't see the point of having a transport slower than the troops it carries (without shields or the ability to shoot from roof).
Other army have lot of transports or very fast units, but chaos is a little poor with this (demons are powerful but damn slow, rhinos cost slots for your minions, and in fact it's a close combat army without speed, when you see tyranid titans running like hell, well it's a bit disapointing).
As y play all sm2 races, i've tested lots of praetorians, and i think it's a bit weak (compared to leviathan for exemple). It would be more powerful (and would worth the point cost) staying a super heavy more than a pretoarian (or stay a pretorian but get a better speed, speed is the key for chaos !).
For exemple, you can transport deamons. If you disembark a demon on the 2nd turn, you'll get: 15+(15-5)+(20-5) = wouhou 40cm, exactly the same as if the demon was flying alone 
With SM2 tower rules, you get 30cm more !
What do you think?
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:31 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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I guess the main point of the transport is the +1D6 in the first round. On the odd occasion I use a P-Tower I carry some Minotaurs and use them to storm buildings from the Tower. It is a fairly sucky unit and was in the SM2 days too. It is strange it is so Godly in Armageddon rules. I wouldn't have an issue with its' movement being beefed to 20cms though.
I kinda dissagree about Chaos being all that slow an army these days though. CSMs can plop down in Dreadclaws or Drop Pods, get a Bike company and can use Rhinos or Landraiders. Khorne is dead speedy (althought 20 on the Deathdealer would have been ace), as is Tzeentch with its' Flamers and Disc Riders. Slaanesh is probably faster than all of them. Nurgle is slow, but you would expect them to be....
Note, a PT will get a repair roll for areas that are only damaged.
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Enderel
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:40 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Southampton - UK
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I always envisaged them as a siege tower type thing so they would be slow and purposeful. I could imagine them advancing upon fortresses or buildings and disgourging their contents upon the battlements and onto the top of buildings.
I'd say that they should have some sort of additional protection rather than additional speed. Maybe some sort of daemonic shield like power shields to give them the protection whilst getting into place.
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:07 am |
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 7948
Location: Denmark
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Hm. How about a cloud of flies instead of an actual shield. The Plague Tower is so crawling with flies and maggots that a hugle cloud of flies constantly surrounds it. This cloud confuses targetting systems and makes it very difficult to make out the outlines of the actual tower.
In game terms it would work pretty much like an Eldar Holofield, though perhaps not quite as powerfull.
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:14 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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They can already discard a Choas Reward card to negate any hit so they are pretty well protected.....thats 3+ selective Void shields, plus it is almost all 1/2+ on the template and it has no "insta-kill" locations; you basically have to grind it up like an Ork Gargant. ?They are very hard to kill if the Choas player wants to hang on to it.
Napalm does make a good point though 'cause its neither fish nor fowl at the moment. ?It's not quick enought to be a useful transport and its' weapons are so short ranged it's not much of a gun platform. ?It does have one nice benefit though; as a Nurgle deamon engine it can never be outnumbered in close combat (I think that was the Cloud of Flies effect IIRC).
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:53 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Yeah, maybe that's it  . I do find Khorne pretty scary fast these days too.....if my opponent gets more VPs first turn it is bad watching those Berserkers triple charging across the board and actually outracing Brass Scorpions, Juggers and Hounds!
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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scream
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:04 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:18 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: France
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In our last battle with Napalm, I was wondering:
When chaos player can use a card to negate damage on the Plague Tower ?
- before rolling dice in damage table ?
- after rolling dice in damage table and before destruction ?
As it's explicitely written in the last Chaos codex book (on the mailing list) for:
- superheavies ("discard a card before rolling in SHT")
- Bubonis ("The card must be played before the damage roll")
- Lord of Battles ("Can not us Chaos Card to negate destruction")
But there is nothing for:
- Plague Tower
- Banelord
- Skylok
May be an explanation on how using cards to negate damages for these 3 units may be a good thing because actually, players can use loads of firepowers on a Plague Tower, manage to destroy it and the Chaos player can use a single chaos card to avoid destruction and say: "I have a brand new Plague tower and" and remove all damages prior to destruction shot.
I suppose that the Chaos Card used to prevent destruction does not remove all previous damages ?
_________________ Fair players live longer Epic40k.fr Techpriest
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:07 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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You got the LoB exactly wrong...it is "cannot use Chaos Cards EXCEPT to avoid destruction". Also, the Banelord is not also a GD so you can never play cards on it.
I think it would be easy enough to assume all GD/War Engines follow the same rule that the card must be played before rolling. In any case, it clearly says in the rule for "That didn't hurt" that the card is played after failing an armour save.....so it is pretty clear when it must be played.
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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scream
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:42 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:18 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: France
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Sorry for the LoB, I forgot 1 word...and it's off course the most important one: "except"...
So, if Chaos Player discard a card to avoid destruction, all previous damages are not cancelled ? In SM/TL it was not clear at all in the rules..
So if I understand correctly (I hope):
a LoB loose its 2 arms, and get a hit at reactor location and should be destroyed due to this hit, if Chaos player negate the destruction with a card, this damage is cancelled but the 2 arms are not repaired ?
If 2 hits have been made to reactor, first roll is a 1, second roll is a 4 but receives the +1 bonus for consecutive location hit and LoB reactor explodes. Chaos Player chooses to negate damage by discarding a card, does the first damage of first roll still apply or is the reactor considered being totally repaired and consecutive hit bonus lost for this location ?
I agree that it could be nice to have the ability "That didn't hurt" written in the description of the LoB (unless you prefer keeping the actual wording).
I could also be possible to add to the "That didn't hurt" description something like:
4. ?That Didn?t Hurt!?: Greater Daemons can draw and use the raw energy of Chaos to protect themselves in battle. When a Greater Daemon is fails an Armor Save (before rolling for damage in the case of Greater Daemon with a hit location template), it may surrender a Chaos Reward to ?negate? the killing blow. This is done by fanning out the player?s remaining Chaos Reward cards and allowing the opponent to randomly select one and discard it. Multiple failed saves may be countered on a 1 card to 1 failed save basis. Effects that do not allow an Armor Save cannot be countered.
Thanks in advance for your reply,
Vincent
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:21 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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No, not quite right. ?I shoot a LoB with a Volcano cannon....he fails the save....he now must decide if he wants to use a card....if he doesn't I get to make my damage roll and he has to accept the result. ?You don't get to see how bad the damage is before deciding to throw a card. ?The rules don't say this repairs previous damage anywhere....so no previous damage is repaired by using a card in this way. ?It all seems quite self-explanatory as the rules are currently written.
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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scream
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:45 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:18 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: France
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I agree with you Zap but the wording in LoB description says:
"except that due to its mechanical nature it cannot use Chaos Rewards except to avoid destruction"
so...avoiding destruction means that a dice roll in one of the damage table (where result can be a destruction of the LoB) is high enough to destroy the LoB  So it could be interprated differently:
- only damages generating destruction could be negated, not the ones to arms, wheels etc...
- you can't be sure to destroy it while you've not roll the dice in the damage table so...how to apply the "avoid destruction" if Chaos player is not sure that damage will destroy the LoB ?
Sorry for being so "Fastidious"
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zap123
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:44 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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I guess that is slightly open to interpretation....change "avoid destruction" to "prevent a damage roll"....or just leave it out entirely?
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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scream
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Post subject: plague tower improvement Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:43 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:18 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: France
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I like when the same wording is used to explain the same hability that different units have, it makes things easier to understant and prevent bad interpretation
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[ 14 posts ] |
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