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Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Christof999

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 am

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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:01 am
Posts: 16

Hi there,

I am starting to collect epic stuff and am having trouble deciding which rules to use, the Netepic rules or the Space Marine 2nd edition rules. Can someone tell me what the major difference is? What the advantages and disadvantages of both are?

I will be playing

Blood Angels
Ultramarines
World Eaters
Death Guard
Orks
Eldar
Tyranids

Which system would be better etc.

Thanks
Christof

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primarch

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:19 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

Well, its a lengthy answer but I'll try to be succinct. :;):

From the core rule perspective:

1. Alternating movement. Unlike the original rules, you alternate with your opponent revealing your orders (you don't reveal them UNTIL you move the unit), one unit at a time. No more losing initiative and watching the whole opponent force move before you do. It provides for a more engaging tactical movement phase, especially adding in the next two major changes.

2. Fog of War. Orders are totally secret until you decide to move the unit. It keeps your opponent guessing until the unit is activated and moved. Now you have to decide if charging a unit that has not moved is worth it or not (maybe the unit is on first fire and will mow you down, or maybe in was going to advance and you thwart its move). It adds a whole new dimension to the movement phase that wasn't there before.

3. Overwatch. Sorely missing in the original rules. We brought back the a modified form of the first edition rules were units on first fire can fore go their first fire phase shooting to fire at enemy units that move during the movement phase to interdict their movement. This type of fire is done at a -1 penalty due to the quick nature of the firing. Of course there are certain types of weapons that can take this type of fire without penalty (like tarantulas). These three rules spice up and make the otherwise inactive movement phase quite involved.

4. Titan construction. Remember how you could build any titan in SM2 with any weapons and they would all cost the same? Warlords with many volcano cannons and vortex missiles all for the same price.... We brought back the old 1st edition construction system so differently armed titans cost different and are worth different VP's. Also we specified which weapons are mounted where. No more vortex missiles mounted on arms..... bleh. Needless to say arming titans with close combat weapons is feasible and cheap... :;):

5. Titan immunities. One thing that really bugged many players was how you could swarm a titan with lowly low CAF troops and due to the additional d6's provided they would eventually destroy the titan. NO MORE. Only titans and praetorians (see below) give additional dice in close combat versus a titan. Infantry and lowly vehicles don't and just die in droves versus a mighty titan. Additionally titans have electrohulls and point defenses and make infantry rushes suicide, as they should be!

As a minor note all templates, saves and damage table have been reworked and repair rolls were made better.

6. Praetorians. Remember the Capitol Imperialis? Remember how such mighty vehicles could die with one failed save? NO MORE. Such mighty fortress vehicles were given the same boon as titans and now have hit location templates just like titans. They finally are worth their points!

On a side note even super heavies like the baneblades were given tables for damage (albeit less detailed) to give them more staying power

7. Psychic powers. Endless arguments on what can affect what, what chaos powers can and cannot do. We divided them into physical and non-physical powers were the major distinction is that physical powers can be saved against with armor (the psy-save does not apply) and the non-physical ones ignore armor (but the psy-save does apply). The scope of each power was reviewed and specified what it can effect (no more using telekensis to move titans around!)

8. Unit/rule changes/modifications. While the sheer amount of unit stat chages is waaay to large for me to list or even remember some major ones are: Space marines now have armor saves, terminators have better range and save (they can now even teleport and have different variants). Elite units. Units designated as elites (usually HQ units) have particular boons like re-rolls and such to make them resilient. More specific guidelines as to when the HQ shooting immunity applies are not are also given.

One particular old bugbear was eldar titans and holofields versus artillery. That was solved and has years of playtest to back it. The change being that artillery ignores the holofield save (as it always did) BUT IT ALWAYS SCATTERS, EVEN WHEN DIRECTLY FIRED. Needless to say eldar titans now once again grace the tabletop versus armies like IG.

All those wacky ork weapons (and also some not so wacky eldar weapons) had their explanations redone and hopefully better explained.

9. All released units since the SM2 days including forgeworld model rules are also provided. Including a Tau army list!

These are some, but not all the changes to the core rules. Please note I have barely scratched the surface with the changes and there are many more that impact on the tactical feel of the game.

Pertaining to armies

1. Blood Angels. Besides the overall changes that benefits all marines the angels death company is still there, there are new psy powers and other blood angel specific units and powers. All SM lists are done in a "codex" fashion with certain unique powers and units to make them stand out from other chapter. The list have been expanded to include many more chapters than the game originally had.

2. Ultramarines. These are the standard marine chapter. Each chapter has a company summary on hw it is usually organized.

3. World eater. The chaos list has been extensively overhauled to better accommodate all the styles of play. You can have demonic armies, cultist armies and of course traitor legions (CSM). The world eater figure prominently under the khornite powers with their own structure (different from other legions, the have the old CSM units plus berserkers) and the powers you already know.

4. Same as 3, they have CSM and plague marine with unique powers.

5. Orks. All the fluff and wacky units still there. Army construction is modified and better explained. Mekboy card granted units have been modified and gargant templates and table have been imporved. Weapon range on gargants were also increased. The mega-gargant is now very fearsome due o he range increase.

6. Eldar. I already touched upon the eldar titans, we also added a large amount of units, including the eldar knights! The list now reflects the more modern eldar lists with units added to reflect this. Troublesome units like the prism cannon and deathstalker were revisited and clarified.

7. Tyranids. MASSIVE departure from the original rules. We redid the hive mind card scheme and now "node creatures" those that control the swarms have a certain amount of "points" that regulate how many cards you give. Creatures instinctual orders and independent units are better defined. These rules are a decade old and work much better than the GW ones. Additional units were also added and how bio-titan criticals are taken and what weapons have better chances of doing them were also addressed.

Mind you this is a super scant description of all the lis changes.

You can go to the netepic yahoo list and download the latest files and versions.

The most important thing is that these changes have, in some cases, nearly a decade of playtesting to look for loopholes. It may not be perfect, but in my experience we have more testing on it than GW did their original rules.

Netepic, while based on SM2/TL, has so many changes that it is in reality a different game.

On the whole most people who have tried both prefer netepic (I only remember one person in 10 years that after playing both preferred straight SM2).

"Better" can be subjective, but most would agree that netepic is SM2/TL worthy successor and an improvement in almost every aspect.

Primarch

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zap123

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:23 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Hey Primarch, nice description. I do however think most Ork players would take exception to "The mega-gargant is now very fearsome due to the range increase." The poor old Mega-Gargant is still a walking Zippo Lighter

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gaskran

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:09 pm

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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:12 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Sweden

Again, nice description!
I beg to differ about the Mega-Gargants though. After a major slaughterfest against the Tyrranids last week-end the mega gargant could count the charred corpses of no less than two Heirophant bio-titans and one Domiatrix, not counting the droves of incinerated gargoyles and genestealers. Once that Skullcrusher mega-cannon unloads in its fullest, the enemies quail in dispair!javascript:emoticon('

')
smilie

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primarch

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:32 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

Hence the changes in the weapon ranges. The mega-gargant could always cause massive damage, but its short range made it tactically unusable. The 75 cm range battlecannon range makes a HUGE difference.

Primarch

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Christof999

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:35 pm

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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:01 am
Posts: 16

Thanks That decided it for me!

C.

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Dwarf Supreme

Post subject: Can someone tell me the major differences ?

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:41 pm

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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11147
Location: Canton, CT, USA

(Christof999 @ Jan. 06 2008,15:35)

QUOTE

Thanks That decided it for me!

C.

Another convert.

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