Hi!

In the context of net epic gold, I don't think the template extension to hits and buildings will mean much. So unless a problem in standard net epic rules is noted, I'll accept these into the rules.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

You're absolutely correct to say that I played it using the Evolution rules, but this didn't make much difference to the situation highlighted.
It's the Plasma Generation (PG) rules that have raised my concerns about flame template weapons. Under the PG system it is possible to Charge & First Fire with a Warhound. In my experience, the Inferno Gun almost never got into firing range on turn 1, but because of the changes the Warhound can now can move 50cm and then First Fire with the template. That means you can get that template very deep into enemy territory - and was the reason that my Ork mob who had only been moved on foot (20cm on to the board) were barbecue bait.
The situation may have been exacerbated by the fact that under Evolution you don't know where the Titans are going to be placed. It has me wondering if maybe Titans & Praetorians should not be covered by the Fog of War rule and placed before the game begins.

I'm probably worrying too much about this, but that's the reason why!

The solution may be to increase the points cost of an Inferno Gun...

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Hi!

The solution is to KILL the warhound....

Also, like you mention you spend a whole turn doing nothing. That's a very large price to pay in it of itself in a game that last 3 turns on average. You pay full price for 2/3 use, assuming it doesn't get whacked....

Template weapons should be deadly. On a warhound is probably the height of their effectiveness. All other units will be far less effective. I can live with the twin inferno armed warhound. Only 2 shields and less resilient than other titans. I can imagine many ways to kill it before it closes.

It is what makes the game wonderful!

Let's leave it as is for now. You and I are getting quite a few games in, so we'll have data enough for an informed call at some point.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

I'm very wary of any of the rule changes proposed so far.

If the barrage rules are to be changed as suggested, I'd like to see battle reports posted which show the impact, so that we can all see how this rule change works in practice. As for the other ideas, I really don't see the need to change any of those.

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Hi!

Agreed. Bissler and I are putting in quite a few games, so we'll be reporting on these.

Projecting from the games so far, I predict the changes are useful, but not cumbersome or overpowered.

I was really let down by the power of artillery in my last two play test in regards to their effectiveness against buildings and titans. One hit to represent a barrage against them is too little.

But the proof is in the pudding, we shall see.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

As much as I at first liked the idea of multiple hits per template vs units with a hit location template (Titans and Praetorians), the last few comments here have changed my mind.

Artillery is not supposed to to be effective against Titans. Not because Artillery is weak, but because Titans are tough. Artillery is intended to be used to break up large formations of weak targets, or to soften hard targets. Thus one hit per barrage vs Titans & Praetorians is justified.

That said, should you decide to go with the multiple hits per, I feel that an alteration to the procedure of hits following shield loss should be made. Specifically, a location should not be chosen or be random. It should be the Carapace (or wherever produces the Shields) to represent feedback into the Shield generators following them collapsing.

Even if you do allow choosing a location, it should be specified as having to be one that could reasonably have been within the template. For example, if a Flamer template just barely touches a Titan from the Titan's right side, the left arm weapon should not be a legal choice.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Isn't that the whole point of the hit location templates? To make it so that a semi random hit location can be chosen that makes sense for the angle of attack. How would these rules be changing that?

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Thanks,
Troy


Once Upon a Midnight Dreary....

Quite right. Good point. I may be more tired than I thought I was.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Should the superheavy take several hit too ?

Will it work the same on bio-titans ?

I'm quite afraid of the change, will it be incorporated in NE Evolution or in NE Titanium ?

I'm guessing it will be in the Core Rules - Titanium if that's what it's called.

While Evolution will mark a different way of playing, there are no plans for weapons rules being different under that system. The idea is that despite changes to the basic rules, that it will play using all the same stats as a standard game of Net Epic.

Same basic orders + Same stats = Easier system to adapt to

Fingers crossed!

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so if it's in the Core, I'm really afraid of this choice:

- will you really recompute all the cost of units that have weapon templates ?

It touch at least 50-60 units in several army list.

Just an example:

Thunderhawk: it has a 6BP TSM -2 Template, will its cost be changed ?
And it's just an easy example, som units that come across in my head:
- noise marines
- plage tower
- bubonis titan
- vortex ?
- marauder bombers
- phoenix bomber
- Barrage missile
- Ordinatus
- ork fighters/bombers

I think there are many other things to tweak/rebalance than introducing a change that slighty modify the balance of many weapons across ALL codexes and will place imperial/orks/chaos titans in big difficultys whereas titans that do not use power/void shields will not be impacted!

How so? Unless I am missing something the change will effect anything with a hit location template, the presence or absence of shields shouldn't be making any difference.

Your right though, this does seem like a very large change in the balance of large things and the weapons used to kill them.

I also think it might be beneficial for one of the guys paying particular attention to this to make a post summarizing all o the current proposed changes, so much has been discussed so far, it is getting confusing keeping track of what each person is talking about.

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Thanks,
Troy


Once Upon a Midnight Dreary....

I mean that holo-fields (and equivalent fields) can deviate templates attacks (when firing at an eldar titan with a barrage template, you must roll the deviation dice), imperial/orks/many others don't have this chance. That's why I say this change will slighty impact some units (standard shields units) and not that much others (holo-fields units).

I know what you mean, but...

There's still more chance of catching an pointy-eared user of holo-fields than not with barrages. 2 out of 6 of the scatter dice rolls will hit, and then with the remaining 4 deviations (assuming that the template has been placed dead over the centre of the Titan), a roll of 7+ on 2D6 is the only way of saving the Titan from being caught in the blast radius. That's pretty much 4 out of 6 hits. Given that they don't have any solid shielding to soak up initial hits, I think it could be argued that Eldar Titans may be even more vulnerable to barrage attacks.

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Do you really want to see artillery company as titan killer ?

600 points company (2 basilisks dets, 1 bombard dep) that could remove up to 15 shields at 150 cm ?

And how do you consider when detachments lose minis ? Will a single bombard still continue to remove up to 3 shields per turn ?

I can not see how this major change would not result in something totally unbalanced...