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NetEipc or EA

 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:10 pm 
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Everyone looks for different things in their games.

While I agree that EA could be a better game. IMO it is just the opposite. It is inferior in many respects.

Which ever you enjoy is best for you.

Gary

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Aye, in the end it's such a different rules system, it really just comes down to what type of game you prefer.

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:08 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 16 2007,06:08)
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Do you still both line up on your table edge like 2nd ed? I do like the forward deployments in E:A.

Hi!

The old objectives styles of play is still mainstream, although lots of scenarios and alternate deployment methods have been proposed.

We've been trying to formalize a scenario, alternate deployment system. Its on our exceedingly long "to do list".  :;):

Primarch

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:11 pm 
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(loofnick @ Apr. 16 2007,09:49)
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Primarch,

I'd really like it if we could have something similar to that bit of salesmanship in the intro to Netepic core rules.  I think a lot of players coming from a SM2 background expect the rules (and especially unit decriptions) to be mostly the same as SM2.  It would be good to point out the advantages, and make it clear that new players really need to read all the rules- your blurb nicely tells people how much difference to expect. It's also a good advert to E:A players.

Caveat: Vibrocannons DO ignore shields- it says it in the rules and everything!  Maybe some other little corrections wanted; maybe a bit shorter as well.
----------------------------

For myself, I've barely tryed E:A.  The rules seem fluid, but the system is nowhere near as complete as Netepic's (E:A fortifications just for SiegeMasters? for example).  And I like the old crazy weapons (Vortexes, Madboyz, wierd Pychic Powers, Vibrocannon) rather then the abstract E:A stuff.    And I hate E:A formation vs formation  targetting, and assault resolution is ugly and unnaturally mean to small units.

And of course I want to use all my old models.  But if I had to start from scratch, and wanted new models, my bank balance would say E:A, as you seem to need less units to have a good tactical game.   Maybe that's just our style of Netepic play- we do tend to rush forward.  I'm waiting on the rules review to before trying E:A some more.

Table edge lines?  Still min. 80cm apart, with some units (scout types) infiltrating one move into the table.  Except, I think just Planatary Defense forces (Siegemasters like?) get to occupy forward fortifications.

Hi!

No worries there. Its customary for me to write some sort of preface for the rules.

This time I will take your advice and write a summary of rules changes. I believe you are correct when it will be valuable for old players to know what the changes have been and realize how different the game has become.

Primarch

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:19 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 16 2007,17:05)
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Aye, in the end it's such a different rules system, it really just comes down to what type of game you prefer.

Hi!

Indeed. From a purely mechanistic, game design point of view, I think E:A is better made.

Problem for me is the mechanic of a game can be elegant, but if it fails to capture the "feel" of the universe it portrays then the end result may be contrary to what was intended.

For me epic IS the game of huge armies rushing to some to grips to each other and destroy one another.

Since epic 40k, I feel epic games are being fielded with less and less models. Too much emphasis on tourney play with "Armies, that look more like "squads".

Look at battles from the different eras and you'll see what I mean.

Of course, what the "feel" should be is a whole other debate and the responses are as individual as gamers themselves.

In the end its a matter of taste.  :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:07 am 
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I would note that most of the games of netepic I have seen posted here have looked very small... certainly not 'Epic' affairs.  So is game size a factor of rules or the time people have to play I wonder?  It's very easy to get your epic hit with a 3K game of EA (and presumably Netepic too) It is accessible for people in terms of getting a painted army, and making time to play.

When was the last time any of you Netepic players actually played a really big game? How often do those really big games actually happen?  I'm picking very rarely, if at all. If you are playing games that big all the time then why aren't you posting pictures dammit!!? :D

I played a 6K game of EA on Sunday no problems, on guard side there were 20 leman russ, 100 stands of infantry, dozens and dozens of other guard units. However while this was bigger than a normal EA tournament game, it's still definitely not what I'd call a big game, and I haven't played more than a 10k game for over a year or two now. Most of our play is based around tournament rules and playtesting for list development at the moment. Once EA gets its rules revision done, and Tyranid and Tau list finalised, then we will get back to some proper 'Epic' sized games :)

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:15 am 
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We're just cranking up at the moment and playing mostly 4K while we re-aquaint ourselves with NetEpic.  This is a pretty decent size and fairly well balanced across the armies (don't try playing 2K vs. Orks....urggg).  I think 5-6K will become the norm once we've all dusted off and painted up full forces.  I will post up a mini bat-rep for Sunday's Bug vs. Stuntie fest later today to show 4K.  

The number of troops varies a lot by race...a 4K Squat army is pretty small.  My typical 4K Imp Guard army would probably have about 85 stands of infantry, 1 titan, 3 superheavies, 20 tanks.

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:17 am 
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Hi!

My standard sized game, for many years, has been 6000 points. Its large enough for a true "epic" experience but still manageable to game in an afternoon (all time best time 2 hour completion time, including setup). Larger than that needs more tables and more time.

I only ever bother documenting games larger than 20k per side, which are infrequent, but have played up to 12k on a more frequent basis (of course back when I played more overall). So I guess ya, we arent posting our pics ...... :;):

For a 6k game IG can field approximately 200 infantry type stands, 30-40 armored vehicles and 20 artillery pieces and a reaver titan. A normal game with setup time would fluctuate around 4 hours.

Sigh... good times..... :)

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:53 am 
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Yes Epic is less Epic. It seems to have gone 1st ed (smallest) 2nd ed (largest) 3rd ed (smaller than 2nd) 4th ed (larger than 1st).

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:30 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 16 2007,20:53)
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Yes Epic is less Epic. It seems to have gone 1st ed (smallest) 2nd ed (largest) 3rd ed (smaller than 2nd) 4th ed (larger than 1st).

Hi!

Yes, thats a good description.

In the end the discussions on epic versions is much like discussing which color is better, red or blue. Lots of subjective reasons for liking one or the other, but fewer reasons based on any measurable objective fact.

Perhaps those who like both are ahead of the rest of us in that regard.....  :;):  :D

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:44 am 
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(primarch @ Apr. 17 2007,05:30)
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 16 2007,20:53)
QUOTE
Yes Epic is less Epic. It seems to have gone 1st ed (smallest) 2nd ed (largest) 3rd ed (smaller than 2nd) 4th ed (larger than 1st).

Hi!

Yes, thats a good description.

In the end the discussions on epic versions is much like discussing which color is better, red or blue. Lots of subjective reasons for liking one or the other, but fewer reasons based on any measurable objective fact.

Amen. I used to think only super detailed rules are worth it and, thus, only played ASL and other such rules monsters for a long time. It took me 15 years and the reading of literally dozens of rule sets to realise it's all just a matter of taste. Granted, rules anomalies and weak mechanics do exist but the  big picture is just that: a matter of taste.


Perhaps those who like both are ahead of the rest of us in that regard.....  :;):  :D

Primarch


I'll have to try Heresy sometime for real...  :devil:

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:35 pm 
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(Markconz @ Apr. 16 2007,19:07)
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So is game size a factor of rules or the time people have to play I wonder?

I think it's a matter of time. Obviously it takes less time to play a 3k game than a 6k game. When I play, my usual opponent and I typically play 5k points and with set up and clean up it occupies a pretty good chunk of time. But on the other hand, we really don't want to play anytrhing smaller, because we like Epic to feel, well, epic!  :D

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 Post subject: NetEipc or EA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:22 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 16 2007,22:11)
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(loofnick @ Apr. 16 2007,09:49)
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Primarch,

I'd really like it if we could have something similar to that bit of salesmanship in the intro to Netepic core rules.  I think a lot of players coming from a SM2 background expect the rules (and especially unit decriptions) to be mostly the same as SM2.  It would be good to point out the advantages, and make it clear that new players really need to read all the rules- your blurb nicely tells people how much difference to expect. It's also a good advert to E:A players.

Hi!

No worries there. Its customary for me to write some sort of preface for the rules.

This time I will take your advice and write a summary of rules changes. I believe you are correct when it will be valuable for old players to know what the changes have been and realize how different the game has become.

Primarch

Cheers Peter!  That'd be grand.


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