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ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:58 am 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Mar. 19 2007,01:53)
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,07:38)
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Medusa - If anything, this is worse than the Destroyer.  100cms, 4+ to hit, -3TSM...and -6 against structures...and you get 3 for 200 points!!!!  This is a simple one to fix though....change the 4+ to 2BP.  Still massively powerful, but a single shot from the whole detachment makes it far more realistic.

Medusa should IMO have a shorter range, 75cm or so.

Hi!

I will invoke the little known " founding members rule".

If Mojarn says lower the range... lower it.

Heck, this is a guy whose been around epic as long as me, words of wisdom for sure.  :;):

Regarding the previous units and my comments, if you think a stat change is better, than do that.

I'm giving our esteem proofreader lots of power and leeway on this....  :;):

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:00 am 
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(Enderel @ Mar. 19 2007,03:48)
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Should have these two from the documents I sent over but here they are anyway -

Airbourne troops should be independent..

Hydra needs to be introduced in both forms (platform and mechanised) but probably needs working on their range and rate of fire as it's very high currently..

Hi!

Correct, hydras were mistakenly omitted in one of our infamous copy/paste debacles....  :;):

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:02 am 
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(Enderel @ Mar. 19 2007,09:03)
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(Mojarn Piett @ Mar. 19 2007,09:44)
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(Enderel @ Mar. 19 2007,10:48)
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Hydra needs to be introduced in both forms (platform and mechanised) but probably needs working on their range and rate of fire as it's very high currently..

As it should be. It has _four_ autocannons after all.

I think there was a worry that it was slightly to good for it's price compared to other AA weapons..

Personally I love them and have got both versions..

Hi!

They "should" be good, it is the pre-eminent AA weapon, the trick is to make the point cost appropriate for the punch.

Originally the cost was around 250, perhaps its closer to 300?

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:05 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,18:37)
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Compare the Hydra to the Skyray....now there's a unit that's a little too good.

Hi!

One army list at a time....  :;):

The Tau are an odd list. It is "core", but it is also the LEAST playtested. I would state any changes or recommendations when we cover it will be less controversial than with more established lists.

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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:53 am 
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Yeah. my bad.  

I think the Hydra detachment doesn't look too bad compared to other "cannon" stuff like the Firestorm and Thunderfire and newer stuff like Hunters.  Given the Imperial aircraft are pretty ordinary I'm ok with 250 for the Hydras, but 300 would be reasonable.  Maybe have the platform version 250 (0 move, -3 CAF, and removed if broken) and the mobile one 300.

Good to see Medusa dropped to 75cms.  Maybe for the Destroyer up the detachment to 300 points and they give away 6 VPs if broken to match the fluff....."you can have these uber toys....but they're risky!!"

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Enderel
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:20 am 
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I think the Hydra would work at 300 and 250 respectively. Or introduce something like the twin linked rule from 40K?

Autocannons for the Hydra would be 2 dice instead of 4 but get a re roll due to the sheer amount of firepower they put out.

Just an idea!  :)

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:39 am 
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(primarch @ Mar. 20 2007,02:58)
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[quote="Mojarn Piett,Mar. 19 2007,01:53"]
Hi!

I will invoke the little known " founding members rule".

If Mojarn says lower the range... lower it.

Heck, this is a guy whose been around epic as long as me, words of wisdom for sure.  :;):

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I _have_ been known to make mistakes.  :;):

However, being the treadhead I am I do happen to have all the Imperial armour books (save the harback I:A 4) and the Medusa really has a very short range as it's supposed to be an old siege weapon. In fact the range is so short a reduction to 50cm would well be justified. But even in 40k universe I like to have some shred of reason and a SP gun with a 50cm range is just plain ridiculous.  :)

EDIT: as for Hydra, I wouldn't touch it's rate of fire but IIRC its range is 100cm, no? That could well be toned down to 75cm.

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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:46 pm 
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Not sure reducing range on an AA is a good idea.  I'd rather see the points go up than lose the 100cms.  With only 75cms an AA unit is at the mercy of Nightwings, Overlords and any other flyer with 75cms range at high altitude.

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:25 am 
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(Enderel @ Mar. 20 2007,03:20)
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I think the Hydra would work at 300 and 250 respectively. Or introduce something like the twin linked rule from 40K?

Autocannons for the Hydra would be 2 dice instead of 4 but get a re roll due to the sheer amount of firepower they put out.

Just an idea!  :)

Hi!

I like the price scheme for platforms and the mobile version.

I'd keep the 4 dice, since re-rolls and multiple dice tend to be similar in effect.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:27 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 20 2007,09:46)
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Not sure reducing range on an AA is a good idea.  I'd rather see the points go up than lose the 100cms.  With only 75cms an AA unit is at the mercy of Nightwings, Overlords and any other flyer with 75cms range at high altitude.

Hi!

Zap, the medusa is a siege artillery piece not an AA gun, so reducing the range is okay.

I agree that real AA units need a longer range since air power would chew them up otherwise.

Primarch

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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:49 am 
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Hi Primarch,

Two different items being discussed.  In summary:

Reduce Medusa to 75cms = good idea.

Mojarn suggested reducing Hydra to 75cms = bad idea IMO for reason stated.

Sorry for the confusion.

:D

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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:42 am 
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New item for noting. ?Mechanised and Mechanised Assault companies. ?Their costs in Netepic 5.0 are 650 and 600 points respectively. ?This is interesting given they consist of 3 detachements which cost 250 points individually, + the command units. ?I note these cost 700 and 850 points in SM2/TL days.

Philosophically I think these Companies really belong only in the Tech Guard/AMTL list (as they once were), but I dont have a problem with them as is, just thought it looked a little anomolous.




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OzTenaka
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:59 am 
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I would love to make all these changes. However a small technical problem with my PC (getting some nasty beeps :( ) which will slow this down a little.

I also can't edit tables in the PDF format so adding extra units etc will require me to edit the word docs and then convert.

Converting from PDF to word does some interesting things so I doubt converting, editing and re converting will work.
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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:07 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 20 2007,16:46)
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Not sure reducing range on an AA is a good idea.  I'd rather see the points go up than lose the 100cms.  With only 75cms an AA unit is at the mercy of Nightwings, Overlords and any other flyer with 75cms range at high altitude.

Dang, you are right. I forgot about the longer range of aircraft weapons in Net Epic.  :blush:

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:11 am 
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(OzTenaka @ Mar. 20 2007,23:59)
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I would love to make all these changes. However a small technical problem with my PC (getting some nasty beeps :( ) which will slow this down a little.

I also can't edit tables in the PDF format so adding extra units etc will require me to edit the word docs and then convert.

Converting from PDF to word does some interesting things so I doubt converting, editing and re converting will work.

Hi!

Did you get my e-mail with the links for the word files?

Editing will be easier with these.

Let me know.

Primarch

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