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Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
zap123
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Quote: (ortron @ 09 May 2009, 13:42 )

For Eg the armour save of leman russ tanks is equal to that of chimera hulled types. The hellhound is slow and its inferno cannon isn't scary at all, especially when compared with the salamander.

Few other points (pdf is from the wiki):
If scorpian is modified tarantula, how come its not Light arty?
Zulu AA? not sure what this one is supposed to represent, likewise description would suggest Arty?
Hydra is not covered in the body text?
Griffons.. wow! they look powerful now.
Flier wpns rarely match up to current wpn loadouts (the old WYSIWYG?)

Please don't think of this as complaining, its just interesting to see how different some things are between the systems. I guess you get used to a unit filling a particular role/capability and its interesting when that perception is changed.

Regards
Geoff

I did wonder why GW gave the Chimera such good armour in SM2, but it's stuck since then.  Good catch on some of those....Hydras got left out of V5 so we added the card and stats but forgot the description  :whistle: .  Scorpion and Zulu should probably be in the light artillery section.  Not sure why, but the Hellhound has always been c#@p  :vD .  Like the Chimera and the T-Bolts/Marauders, these are the stats GW gave them back in the day and generally  changing cannon units is avoided unless they are broken.  

There'd be a pretty strong case to drop the points cost of the Hellhounds though I reckon.

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ortron
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:58 am 
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Yes.. well who am i to complain if the net epic IG want to run around in tougher transports than their EA couterparts.

Instead of dropping the points on the hellhound, why not just up its speed to 20cm that way its on par with the other like-hulled variants.

Besides the weapon being soft compared to salamander/bowelburna, both of which are, in fluff, mount lighter armament. It also gets hosed in the speed department.

How do people use these in NE? or do they rarely get a run?

If i was to "house rule" these at 3+ save, 20cm move, +1 CAF, template, 4+, 0, ignore cover. What would be a reasonable cost?
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Malleus
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 11:50 am 
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Quote: (ortron @ 10 May 2009, 10:58 )

Yes.. well who am i to complain if the net epic IG want to run around in tougher transports than their EA couterparts.

Instead of dropping the points on the hellhound, why not just up its speed to 20cm that way its on par with the other like-hulled variants.

Besides the weapon being soft compared to salamander/bowelburna, both of which are, in fluff, mount lighter armament. It also gets hosed in the speed department.

How do people use these in NE? or do they rarely get a run?

If i was to "house rule" these at 3+ save, 20cm move, +1 CAF, template, 4+, 0, ignore cover. What would be a reasonable cost?

last time I used em was in SM2 era... back then they usually were behind cover helping guarding an objective (we allways let the flamer go through woods/buildings), therefor making it a pain taking that objective with any light speedy unit!
and at 3 for 150 I think they are pretty good still
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zap123
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:03 pm 
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They pretty much never got a run from my experience.  To be honest, I think if you upped the speed to 20 and made them 4+ to hit they'd still probably be closer to 100 than 150.  The SoB Immolator is 125 for 3 and is better than that (25, 4+ CAF1 Transport 1).  

As a counter, do we leave them as is and make them 100 points per detachment?  Just spit-balling mind.




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Warhead
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:13 pm 
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Guys, I'm sure this was looked at about a year ago ( I remember 'cause I had just joined the forum) and the Hellhound does get the 4+ to hit... the 5+ is a mistake. Somehow it never gets officially fixed or changed on any lists.

I think the 20cm move would help though. The Caf makes sense to me too but not in the NetEpic system.

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sanjuro
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:28 pm 
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I think Warhead is right. I vaguely remember the thread.

What do you think about this solution:

We make the Salamander the standard Imperial Firethrower tank and delete the entry for the Hellhound. People would be free to use the hellhound as a salamander, the hellhound being somewhat the antecessor to the salmander. Maybe this sounds awkward to you fluff-wise, but it would be simple and effective.

cheers

sanjuro
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Warhead
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:34 pm 
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...none for me thanks...

I'm using the old SM Hellhounds for Salamanders for my PDF and the Chimera E40K Hellhound for... er, Hellhounds.

One is fast, light and cheap. The other is slow (this could be better), medium armoured with a deadly flame weapon and at the right price IMO.

Just as an aside... I have been mucking about with rules for "Fire" in that it can take hold and spread in buildings and woods. Great for battles inside Hives.

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zap123
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:02 am 
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Ok, 4+ fix is in :)

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ortron
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:27 am 
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Thats awesome..

Just curious though warhead, why do you not agree with CAF? when it is the same as chimera and similarly if not better armed?

Is it fair to say then that 150pt for 3 is not too expensive if stats are:
3+, 20cm, +1, inferno cannon, template, 4+, 0, ignore cover?

or would 200 be better?

Finally the new guard codex has two hellhound variants:

one, the devil dog, mounts a melta cannon
eg: 25cm, 3+, -3

and the bane wolf has a short ranged chemical/acid cannon:
eg small template, 4+, -2, ignore cover.

Of course these would be just for fun/home games but might be interesting to try.

Anyhow i best stop day dreaming and get painting, game is only 2 days away..
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Warhead
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Chimera has Heavy Bolter (or some such), Storm Bolter on the top hatch and six or so Las Rifles on the back... PD1 and +1 CAF. Hellhound would commonly have a single weapon on the front... PD1 the main weapon could be thought of as useful in close quarters but Epic makes no allowance for this in the units Caf... perhaps you're right and it should... but how many others would require the same change for the same reason?

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ortron
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Well folks, unfortunately the game didn't occur as Zap had something else come up. Rescheduled for sunday afternoon. I'll make sure we throw up some pics.

Cheers for feedback on hellhounds.
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zap123
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:40 pm 
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Will be taking the Orks out to play including a clanking Steam Gargant  :alien:

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Warhead
 Post subject: Recruit Ortron reporting for duty..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Krush dem humies! :alien:

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