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robot statistics...
darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:50 am 
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(zap123 @ Jan. 18 2008,06:34)
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Both the Warlord and "One detachments teleports from Orbit" are Special Cards. ?You can take 1 special card (from the same army list obviously) for each Company card.

I'm not sure why you don't follow the rules when constructing your own army. ?Sure, you might be fighting alongside another army that you would not be able to take as allies...but that is a completely seperate army. ?Still, your game :)

I guess the 40 points from objectives don't count for much in 12000 point battles. ?They are a bit more important in the 4-5000 point games we play :D

i want to fight along darkangels + iron hands + salamander to play all my units. and by the way a paint all units in the chapter color. not easy to take the same model for another chapter, so i painted special models for each chapter...

example:
i take a dark angel chapter, the original rules say, that i have to take 75% in dark angels...if i play wolfes i have to take 75% and so on...

1)
i need all models twice to play each chapter, because they are painted different! very expensive...

2)
imagine, that in my army above every chapter could be seperate a 100% army, so the codes rule works indirectly...i have 3 chapters, in a 3000 points ame nd every chapter has 100% codes (1000 points)...just a question of imagine... :D

but fact is, that we all want to play all our special models belonging to the chapters to have the max. on varity of the real good units...
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yogozuno
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:23 am 
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How does the one Iron Hands company generate 2 special cards?

Actually, the construction is much worse than that - the 'Marine part' has two special cards (teleport and Warlord), and then the Guard component has another two special cards (warhound and Capitol). So, that's 4 special cards in a 4000pt list...

we play in balance at all...every race can take what they want. but you have to take at least one company of each clan, chapter, host and so on...
You must have a different definition of balance to me :)

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yogozuno
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:25 am 
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but fact is, that we all want to play all our special models belonging to the chapters to have the max. on varity of the real good units...

In other words, you all cheerrypick the lists to get as many of the 'best' units as possible in one list...I think that's why the codex/standard rules exist...

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scream
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:52 am 
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I understand now why darkangel complains about balance...I could not imagine making such a squat list:

- taking all my bikers guild/skimmers from Zutik list (hard to hit + hit&run ability)
- taking all my tunnelers from Makurthu Gabe (deviate half)
- taking a Commercial Clan to have a Imperial company
- taking a standard compagny to avoid restriction about units prohited in previous Squat Clans

This is what I call an abusive list. All codex armies with bonuses have some penalties...If you just take bonuses and avoid penalties, this is not the way it's meaned to be played.

In my last game versus Mogwa? (Eldar player), he choosed Eldars from the Saim-Hann craftworld. The wind-rider hosts are great and cheap but he could only field 1 titan and not tempest host. By choosing this craftworld, he accepted the army restriction, that's what makes the game balanced.




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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:26 am 
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(scream @ Jan. 18 2008,08:52)
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yes, so it is, but because all can do so it is in balance at all...and we have the advantage that we can put all our units in one battle to have maximum of fun and varity. and by the way in our mind it makes sense, that 3 whole marine chapter fight in one battle with their whole army and not just as support for the leading chapter!

we play all 6 weeks, so every one of us probably can take 1 chapter a year, if you want to have played all your models!...but why should we surrender of our models and keep them in a glass cabinet...i think it is enough, that my overcost sentinel and overcost robot have to take a place there...

a senseless rule...but our interpretation of varity is having fun with the whole good units and your varity is to have fablous sentinel and tactical marines in battle...
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yogozuno
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:51 am 
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but why should we surrender of our models and keep them in a glass cabinet

And yet you already keep all the 'inefficient' models in there...not seeing much difference :)

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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:44 am 
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(yogozuno @ Jan. 18 2008,09:51)
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but why should we surrender of our models and keep them in a glass cabinet

And yet you already keep all the 'inefficient' models in there...not seeing much difference :)

we just have different ways to play i think.

example:

devastators cost 1000 points and tactcal 750.

in our game tactical has to cost about 450 otherwise no one will take them in battle. no tsm, short range, no trelation to devastator but to expensive in relation to the stats!

so my tactical marines have a good place in the glass cabinet.

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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:07 pm 
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(zap123 @ Jan. 18 2008,01:05)
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zap, look below...i want to explain, why sentinel are too expensiv.

my army has 2 detachment sentinel = 300 points and i have 75 points left for my 4.000 points army.

like you see there is 1 guard special slot free. honest, why should i take 10 sentinel, short range and no tsm, if i can take a leviathan with shields, long ranged weapons.

i know that you argue that the sentinel capture objects and i could keep them behind on ff to protect my artellery from cc...but the reality is, that my opponent invest in firepower and my sentinel will stand behind and no attackers there! and if i go with them forward, they can not knock down shields or destroy heavy tanks but infantrie...but my opponent has no infantrie, because every army is build to have max. fire power, max range to cause max damage in the first ff phase...
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scream
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Wouldn't it be easier for you to forget sentinels and take another units ? Because...if we need to discuss unit cost every time someone build a list and "can not fit all my units in the points", it will be an endless discussion. If like you say you opponents "max fire power, max range to cause max damage in the first ff phase", sentinels are useless for you.

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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:24 pm 
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(scream @ Jan. 19 2008,17:11)
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but that is the point...do you really think, that you can win a battle if you take the nice things like sentinel, tactical marines, thudd gun, beastman, and all the stuff which gives you short range and no tsm, when your enemy takes the things to win a game!

in my opinion it must be equal if you take 3.000 points in fire power or cc! but this is just possible if you can take double on cc units or short ranged units. so units like sentinel and thudd gun and so on should cost less...it is like in real life: if i have the choise to take a man with a gun or a man with a knife for same cost, i take the man with the gun...if i have the choise between a man with a gun or 2 men with a knife, but same cost, then i can think about a strategy choosing 1 man with gun or 2 with knife
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zap123
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:14 pm 
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I'm afraid in "Darkangel Epic" there is no place for Sentinels (or infantry). ?That is sad, but as long as you have fun don't fret. ?Just realise that for probably most of the rest of us, your way of playing is totally foreign, so we probably are not going to agree with you some times (often?). ?You probably wouldn't even take Sentinels if they were 25 points........and no, we are not giving them 75cm range.




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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:09 pm 
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(zap123 @ Jan. 20 2008,16:14)
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I'm afraid in "Darkangel Epic" there is no place for Sentinels (or infantry). ?That is sad, but as long as you have fun don't fret. ?Just realise that for probably most of the rest of us, your way of playing is totally foreign, so we probably are not going to agree with you some times (often?). ?You probably wouldn't even take Sentinels if they were 25 points........and no, we are not giving them 75cm range.

you are right. "darkangels epic" is a dark dark world... :D

hey, i like the nice things too...but if i take them for that cost just because i like them all...in the end i loose the battle because my opponent desn`t want the nice but the effective things...you know?

maybe you have to rule thearmstructure before the battle "nice and beauty" or "effective and victory". but if you do not it is a problem...
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:35 pm 
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(darkangel @ Jan. 19 2008,14:24)
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[quote="scream,Jan. 19 2008,17:11"][/quote]
but that is the point...do you really think, that you can win a battle if you take the nice things like sentinel, tactical marines, thudd gun, beastman, and all the stuff which gives you short range and no tsm, when your enemy takes the things to win a game!

Umm, yes. I've won quite a few games because I used my units' good CAF.

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scream
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:40 am 
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Do you play with the option rule for objectives in big battle that give 10 VP instead of 5 VP ?

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darkangel
 Post subject: robot statistics...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:30 am 
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(scream @ Jan. 22 2008,07:40)
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Do you play with the option rule for objectives in big battle that give 10 VP instead of 5 VP ?

till now we have just played with the 5 vp objectives. but the next games we want to differ between 3 or 4 kind of objectives, where 1 could give you 5, 10 and a main objective marker which gives you 20 vp or something like that. our aim is, that we are forced to include these "nice and beauty" units like sentinel into our army, so that the army which consist only of long ranged and fire power units could not win, because of none holding objectives...i will report to you...
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