Has anyone tried Strikeforce Legion? I know Kato advertises its releases on here, but Im looking for player's experiences.

I own the pdf, but I've not played.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I really enjoy it- cool set of rules

there is the basic rule set for free if you want to give it a go.

There are some good little rules in Strike Legion (electronic warfare is very cool), but the best part is the flexibility. There is a set of core rules that lay out the basics, and then you can "bolt on" as many (or as few) of the additional pieces as you like. I like the basic rules, the construction rules, and some of the rules in the additional modules, but I neither need nor want some of the more complex ones, or ones that cover situations/tech that I don't use. In that case, I just drop them out. It is the best kind of "additive system": the basic game is solid and works on its own, and you add what you want. Much better than stripping things out.

As for play, it can be "crunchier" than other games. That doesn't mean it is Advanced Squad Leader or a huge game of Battletech, but Kajo has gone for more depth than you find in some other games. To me (and this is just to me), it has kind of an old school simulation feel to it, where there are more options than in some of the current abstract games (which are also good, but streamlined), but it has done away with all of the charts and stuff you find in those deeper old games. I like determining from turn-to-turn how much Offensive or Defensive Electronic Warfare resources my units use; it strikes a nice balance between not having any choice beyond movement/shooting and having to determine the angle of impact of an armor-piercing round on a particular thickness of armour from 8 miles (as some games do). It all depends on tastes.

What Strike Legion isn't (at least to me) is a pick-up, fast-play kind of game. It works best among friends, where you can agree on set rules, come to an agreement over problems, and generally adapt it to be what you want. I like that kind of flexibility and friendly gaming, but again - that is just me. It could also be a statement about how I like to game as I get older!

Generally, though, grab the free rules and give it a try. The support is good (you can email KJ or the Strike Legion mailing list) and the price is right. Plus, you can add the new starship rules and have a whole campaign with friends, if you want, with planetary assets and the whole deal. In my case, I play out small skirmishes, etc. with one set of rules in 15mm (5150:SA) and then do larger conflicts with Strike Legion. I guess that I am old school - I like fiddling with the rules and choosing what works best for me.

As a disclaimer, I edited the rules, so I am not entirely free from bias. That said, I did it for free and have no commercial tie to the rules, so I can be fairly objective!

Hope that helps.

(was going to truncate your name for effect, but realized "titi" might not be the nicest lol)

Thanks for the review! Thats exactly the type of feedback I am looking for. Ive edited a number of rulesets, some of which I just did, others I actually liked, so I appreciate your disclosure.

You'd say it has a splash more crunch than Epic, but still plays well, and has a number of bolt-ons for user comfort?

Why would you play SL instead of Epic? Just to use a different universe? Does it have an actual campaign system built in?

I would say that it COULD be crunchier, if you want it to be, but at its most basic level, it is about the same. What it does have, is additional flavour (and this is why I would use it): it suits a Hard SF universe better, or even a Victorian Sci-Fi one (one of the cool parts in the supplements is rules for all kinds of different tech levels, so you could have a small expeditionary force fighting savages with no tanks, or an army with blimps, or whatever!).

I use it instead of Epic when I want to play in the Battletech universe, or my own Sci-fi setting. The unit creation rules allow me to use any kind of model I want, and I love that flexibility and creativity. Don't get me wrong - I like Epic, but without significant work, it is limited to the 40k Universe, and sometimes I want to do something different. So when I see those awesome tanks or infantry from a company that doesn't match Epic, then I can field them as something from Battletech or my own world. You can do that with Future War Commander, but this has more "crunch" to it that suits me and my desire to be a bit closer to the troops/tanks (where FWC and all the warmaster sets are great for commanders who want more abstraction).

You could, with the modules, play campaigns on land/sea/air (SL has rules for all three), and even across solar systems. Add in the TFZ space rules, and you can have fleet combat, too (although, by the point, I find it becoming more complex and abstract than I like, but that is a matter of taste). The basic rules for campaigns, though, are pretty good, and if you can set up a dedicated space with some regular players, it could be a blast. Or be like me and play by yourself (not "with" yourself as KJ likes to say).

If I had to compare SL to anything, I suppose it would be Battletech - not because the rules are similar (Battletech is more awkward, and the record-keeping is a pain for larger conflicts), but because of the optional rules. Also (and this may be just me), but SL feels like it owes something to board games with minis like Battletech: it uses minis, but it has the added depth of a board game. Luckily, it is closer to minis than board games, but if you want SOME of that old board game depth while using your toys, then it has it. Being able to choose the level of depth just makes it more appealing. Hell, you could add or remove rules depending on your mood and how much you plan on drinking.

Give it a try and let us know what you think. I don't have as much time to play as I would like, but if some people start playing, it might be interesting to have a small sub-forum where people could talk about optional rules and relate their exploits.

- Chris (to save you calling me "Tits" or "Titi" )

Thanks, Tits (last time I said that to a girl, it didnt go over so well...go figure?)*

I've been called a rules whore. I basically am always on a search for "the next best thing". You just sold me on it. I have a move coming up late Spring, and my craft room is full of crap as we get ready for said move (and thus, all my gaming stuff is slowly getting buried), but I will, when I get the gumption, buy this ruleset and give it a shot.

Thanks for the tips!

*btw for those who think I must be a complete ass, that time I called her that it was a JOKE...and it still didnt go over well...but if you saw her you'd know I wasnt far off...heh...

No worries! Glad i could help. As was mentioned, you can try the basic rules to see how they go, provided you have the time!

Best of luck with the move, and you are welcome to call me "tits" - it is an ironic comment on my gamer boobs.

I purchased the Tactical Bundle at Wargame Vault, printed it all out in color, spiral bound it all, and laminated and spiral-bound all the QRS sheets from the Yahoo group.

Ive read most of the basic ruleset, flipped through the other three books, and thought about what Ive read so far.

I can see how you compared it to Battletech. The amount of details and special weapons/features/special rules is staggering, both in a good way and a distracting way.

Like Battletech, Strike Legion focuses on the individual unit. Each individual tank has its own damage track, and will take and record damage and damaged systems separately. It is like 40K in this way...except even the most basic training scenario has 12 tanks per side. Yes, they activate in Squads of 4, but each tank declares and fires at its own target individually. This can result in one target being over-targetted if you REALLY need it dead, or damage spread out and scattered amongst every vehicle in an enemy squad - and therefore not eliminating a single one.

As for QRS, the sheets on the Yahoo group are ok, but Ive already written in a few notes in the margins. For example, there isnt one sheet that defines the different Damaged status for vehicles, or that has a complete list of To-Hit modifiers (for example, being out of C2 range, or being damaged, etc). I'm really disappointed by this, as I will need to be referring to the book constantly during my first few turns, but the modifiers are all over the place. I may make my own, but this will take a while, and since Im not an expert on the game, it is 100% guaranteed that I will miss something.

The scenarios are ok, but the force entries are written as text ("You get 5 groups of 4 of this, 2 groups of 4 of that, and 2 groups of two of this") instead of a clear and concise force entry:
5 platoons of 4 vehicles each (20 elements)
3 platoons of 3 infantry squads each (27 elements)
etc

One of the training scenarios has a "150 to 180 minute play time" and its force list is much smaller than that of a game of Epic, and Epic NEVER takes me more than 3 hours, ever. I can see with the level of almost-micromanagement that SL has, why the games could run on, and the problem with that is the brain overload that starts coming in when trying to track damage status and "who fires at what" with 20 to 30 vehicles and dozens of infantry bases on the board.

I'll post this on the Yahoo group as well, but my overall impression of the game, without dropping it on the table and trying a game, is "wow, this game looks really cool!" as well as "Man, Im not sure I want this level of detail per unit at 6mm. Nothing rivals Epic for streamlined goodness!".

Back to reading!

Good point about formatting. I will keep that in mind for future supplements.

As for the depth of the game, your ambivalence is probably right on for me, too. It doesn't claim to be all things to all men: it is a deep game, but not a particularly streamlined one. That means lots of potential and options....and lots of potential headache. So it really depends what you want. I think Epic does a good job of catching the feel of the setting and its warfare. I wouldn't use Strike Legion for that. SL does well at capturing Hard SF warfare, kind of like Tomorrow's War.

You can probably see why I suggested that it works for me at certain times. Depends on my mood and what I want from a game. In fairness, I think that is what the author wanted, and he did a good job of giving you all the options (and then some) that you could possible want. It is a system for people who like to tinker.

I completely agree with the tinkering part. THAT part I am hugely impressed with. I just had a headache of a time playing Tomorrow's War, however, and want a streamlined game that then lets me throw in the options.

This might require some house rules, but simply allowing one unit to fire at another would be a HUGE start, instead of having each and every unit declare its target (target, in this case, being another individual model, likely within the target group, but maybe not!).

I will get this on the table, but its a matter of convincing friends, as always. I try not to share PDFs, but some loaning may be in order before they make the purchase themselves.

Kealios,

I think that you'll find it plays much better than it reads at first run-through. It would be a rare game in which every possible option/system/attribute was used - and I'd say the players were daft for even attempting such a thing.

To address some of your comments:

Most games we've played locally wrap up in one to two hours, and there's rarely an occurrence of 'brain fog' during large games ('large' to us being 50-60 vehicles/squads per side, or about the size of a reinforced, supported combat battalion) - the use of EW markers to show activation status, vehicle status markers, and large vehicle data cards lets one see at a brief glance exactly what is happening at any one moment during the game without too much thinking. Also, the majority of games that we (and other groups I've heard from) play use mostly small vehicles, cutting down the amount of time necessary for a game to reach a conclusion.

The playing times for the scenarios are liberally stated, but are predicated on being the first games in which new rules are introduced; time for rules referencing and discussion during the first run-through of a scenario would be included in those figures. You'll also find that games involving a significant number of large vehicles can vary greatly in their playing time, as these vehicles can sometimes take severe punishment before being rendered ineffective; they can also be disabled by a single attack with some lucky damage rolls (which seems to happen to my units on a regular basis...).

The scenarios themselves are mere tools for teaching the rules in a segmented fashion, allowing for easier assimilation by the players. Once you have a few games under your belt, it'll be rare that you're referencing anything from the rulebooks outside of vehicle or construction data. Also, don't expect each side to have an equal chance at victory in the non-Parity scenarios; they'll be fun games, but there are some inherent imbalances in the printed scenarios. SL was not designed with tournament play in mind.

'Tits' (hi Chris!) is correct in noting that the game's modularity/customization options are the main attractions - the system, taken as a whole, allows the representation of many conceivable forces and situations, allowing the players to build their background to their liking. While Epic is truly a great game (one of the few GW has released), it lacks the ability to emulate anything outside the 40K universe without massive tinkering and new house rules (which can be the source of much disagreement and acrimony, as witnessed by reading through some of the Epic army/rules threads hereabouts - and that for just new additions from within the 40K universe). What I've done with SL is give players a big toolbox, and let them decide which tools are the right ones to get the job done, with each tool having a purpose.

Nice, KJ, thanks for the reponse. You two are doing great things for your game

I have very little hesitation about the game, and know that once any players plays any game a few times, things will flow more smoothly than the first. I am just hoping the mechanics of basic play, extras aside, dont slow things down too much or cause too much micromanagement.

Ive beaten that to death, though, so enough out of me. Now Im off to put more notes down on paper for the QRS I need to make for you guys (read "me", but you'll get it uploaded to the group if I finish it).

Oh, get me an Excel sheet with your unit cards...even if its just in a format that I can put numbers in, and not an actual unit builder, please PLEASE, for the love of Pete, put that online so I can make my own units look nice

Heh heh. Tits.

Heh heh - Aquatic Mammal.