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[rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=26388		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
1) I don't think the Stubborn rule applies where a formation is broken. AFAIK the stubborn rule allows Squats to re-roll '1's in assaults and rallies, but has no other effects.

2) A Fearless WE has a considerable latitude if it is broken
Quote:
1.13.3 Withdrawals, 2nd para,
A formation making a withdrawal may make two moves. Withdrawal moves may be made in any direction, but if a unit ends the second withdrawal move within 15cm of the enemy, it is destroyed (it is killed while trying to escape!). Units may ignore enemy zones of control while making a withdrawal move but may not move directly over enemy units.

and
Quote:
2.1.3 Fearless, 2nd para
Fearless units may choose not to withdraw, and if the unit elects to withdraw it will be destroyed only if it ends its move within 5cm of the enemy rather than 15cm.
Author:  Borka [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Ginger wrote:
1) I don't think the Stubborn rule applies where a formation is broken. AFAIK the stubborn rule allows Squats to re-roll '1's in assaults and rallies, but has no other effects.


The latest version of stubborn in Thurgrim Stronghold 1.4 is a lot different

Quote:
Special Rule - x.0.1 Stubborn
Squats are known for being extremely stubborn folk, and their
fighting style is reflective of this intractable nature. To represent this,
Squat formations may only take a single maximum withdrawal move
of 15cm when breaking. However, the formations only take hack
down kills within 5cm instead of the typical 15cm.

I think it's the above rule Rastaman is referring to.

From the above rule I guess it really says the same as the fearless rule, if you choose to withdraw then it's 5cm that's the deal. RAW does not grant immunity (unless staying put like you point out Rastaman) to the war engines but really just confirms what the fearless rule states in case of a withdrawal move (and adds the limitation of only one 15 cm move).
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Ah - in which case I understand the dilemma.

Note that this version is not quite the same as "Fearless" as there is no option to stand still without being destroyed, and that faster formations are apparently restricted to infantry speed (15cm).
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Yes it is very restrictive and takes a lot of remembering to get right. If you are a fearless war engine then you can
1) Stay still as any fearless war engine can, or
2) Move up to 15 cm, but making sure that you stay outside of 5cm of any enemy units so as not to be destroyed.

If you are not fearless then as a Squat you can only do 2) which for Bikes, Gyrocopters and Overlords is a real ******.
Author:  Borka [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Yes it does mean that, but remember fearless units has the option of not withdrawing and could therefore survive.
Author:  Moscovian [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Tiny-Tim pegged it. Like in life, being stubborn is both a negative and a positive quality. You can picture the Squats refusing orders in order to stay close to the front lines, barking at their opponents about how they'll slice off all four thousand of their heads with a salad fork if given half a chance.

With all this said, Squats have an easy time rallying, with the worst situation being they need a 4+ for a broken formation. Blast markers vanish quickly with these fellows.
Author:  Borka [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Quote:
With all this said, Squats have an easy time rallying, with the worst situation being they need a 4+ for a broken formation. Blast markers vanish quickly with these fellows.

Hmm... Do you mean that squats still are suppost to have the +1 to rally bonus? Because in that case that particular sentence is missing in the Thurgrim 1.4 document in the sticky thread.

Might be worth updating to 1.41 as that's rather important
Author:  Moscovian [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
I changed it to be simpler. If you look at the army list it says all formations activate on a 2+ and rally on a 1+. It makes more sense since ALL the formations have it, why set a value for something only to change it with a special rule for all formations?
1+ rally
-2 for broken
-1 for being within 15cm
= 4+ rally to unbreak
Author:  Borka [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules questions] Squat War Engines Withdrawal moves
Moscovian wrote:
I changed it to be simpler. If you look at the army list it says all formations activate on a 2+ and rally on a 1+. It makes more sense since ALL the formations have it, why set a value for something only to change it with a special rule for all formations?
1+ rally
-2 for broken
-1 for being within 15cm
= 4+ rally to unbreak


Ok great I didn't catch that.

cheers
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