+1

i like the guildmaster in the bike units - every bikie gang needs its leader...found they give a nice bit of punch to the formation as well...although do think they should have reinforced armour instead of invulnerable save...maybe cause I can never roll invulnerable saves anyway

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Agreed!



Like I said - I wasted them, made them sitting ducks to lure out a Death Wheel. Stupid of me. I'll try 2 formations next time.



The bikers formation is good in numbers and good price, and I really like it, however...

To me the guildmaster is profiled like a warlod but without the exo armour. I understand the argumentation of reinforced vs inv save and the fact he's a single model and on a trike, but he's still not a terminator dwarf on wheels.
And he's not really the combat monster he used to be nor like the present warlord, he's not FF either, but still has 2 attacks, one of which is first strike. I'd have to give the unit a few more test runs to give a final verdict, but atm I feel you could bump him to CC 4+ and change inv save to reinforced for a cost raise of 25-50 for the formation? And perhaps drop the commander+leader for inspiring, since it seems to fit a cc boss more - just thoughts.
Also I have missing if there's been a discussion on first strike vs lance? He used to have a lance weap.

Cheers,
Thomas

Hey Thomas,

You bring up some good points and -as I said- I'm open on some type of change to the Guildmaster, it's just hard for me to see the need at this time.

Let's compare him to the Warlord stand:


Inspiring? I don't know. Maybe? The question is what makes him inspiring and not the Warlord unit? Besides, the Squats are already really good at shedding blast markers. They have an abundance of leaders and a +1 to their rally roll; adding inspiring seems like yet another benefit that I don't see them needing.

With that said, I was mulling over a speed-freak version of the Squats with lots of bikes, and perhaps an upgraded bike unit with inspiring would be not only a good addition to that list but a helpful way to distinguish it from the Thurgrimm 'vanilla' Squat list. It's just a musing at this point, but I'm wide open on variant lists.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I would prefer to the Guildmaster stay as he is. He makes a cheaper alternative to upgrade to the Grand Warlord and I like that.

I would love to see the Overlord become Fearless, but there would have to be a serious downgrade in its stats for it to stay the same price though. So on this point I'm all for keeping the statis quo.

Tim, you and I are in agreement. The Overlord isn't the first WE to be non-fearless, so for now I believe it will remain as such. It has so many teeth and a range that makes opponents wince. The only thing keeping a Squat player from closing and firing with the autocannons is the lack of fearless on the unit.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

The Guildmaster maybe the only mounted character model riding solo and still represented as a unit. Other characters are either profiled as unit like the Warlord or an addon like the Grand Warlord and Living Ancestor.

Unitwise
My suggestion is to represent him as a character with bodyguard (thinking one exo trike and two bikes or exo trike riding in pairs). That would justify the better profile.

Characterwise
Make him an elite hearthgaurd. Warlord is an upgrade to have commander + leader. Hearthguard are inspiring and in the thick of things assaultwise, like I imagine a guildmaster. Then you can always throw Warlord upgrade after him if you want the commander abilities.

Weaponwise
I see him as a CC monster riding a trike. I was suggesting the Lance special weapon ability because of his power lance, but see the incentive of the rough rider weapon - same/same

My thoughts on the stat line:



Then upping the formation cost to 250. I'll try the present statline next game but discuss with my opponent the proposed statline and maybe persuade him to try my suggested statline.

This is the statline from the Demiurg, that I have the most experience with therefore my point of reference and could explain my thougts :


Mosc, please note that I'm not saying you should change his stats, these are just thoughts on my first game. When I've played more games with this list (which in all fairness is the most balanced unit, formation and cost wise of the squat three lists I've played), I'll be much wiser

/Thomas

I'm considering what you've said. Everyone, please feel free to chime in, play some different stats for the Guildmaster, whatever moves us forward.

As appealing as adding two bikes to the Guildmaster is, I wonder how many people that would screw up on their models (of course I think a lot of people have them based 3 to a stand too). Then of course if we did that we'd have the only unit with a LV and two infantry on the same stand.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

LV is the question though. We could always go with the same idea as the Mekboy Bad Ork Bikerboy and have him as Infantry. I'm though still happy to have him as a LV at the moment (and we won't even discuss basing changes).

Only used the Guildmaster once so I don't think I can chim in but still, it's a detail.

On the Overlord being fearless, don't believe they need it. Speaking from experience, the lack of fearless led me,after a few games where single overlords turned out to be very very easy to break to field them in groups of two. This reflects on the whole army. One less activation, tougher choice on the WE points (2 overlord or none).
They are working just fine as they are right now.

Maybe he does need to be infantry... I don't know. Let me poll the community on an important aspect of this debate.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Okay, my stronghold warlord Skenderbeg has a rematch against the dreaded Iron Warriors tomorrow.

Last time I made 3 rookie errors that eventually cost me the game. Hopefully this time 'round I'll be wiser It was more than a year ago I've played my squat last, with the demiurg list.

My list is pretty much the same as last time

Pithead 50
Warrior host+5 warriors+4 th+rhinos - 550
Warrior host+5 warriors+4 th+rhinos - 550
Berzerkers+2 berz+warlord+GW+rhinos - 325
Iron Eagles - 275
Iron Eagles - 275
Thunderfires - 100
Bikers+3 trikes - 225
Bikers+3 trikes - 225
Thudd Guns - 225
Thudd Guns - 225
Overlords x2 - 475
Colossus+LA - 500
=4000 pts

I considered beefing both WH up with warlors and having my berzerkers in termites, but decided to go for an extra 4 IE instead, and switching to Thudds plus putting the Overlords together cost me 2 activations. However, the Overlords will be tougher to take down and packs a meaner punch now and the 2x thudds should deliver as much firepower as 3x MM. This list seems a tad more shooty than my previous, which could give me the edge against the tough IW.

What formations do you plan to put in the Pit Head?

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

After reading Frosthammers report, I was thinking bikes, or one of the warrior hosts. I didn't use the pithead ofr bikes the last game since I played the pithead as a wraithgate.

FYI you can't take one of the Warrior hosts unless you drop the Rhinos. Which would give you the option of garrisoning them if you decided to leave them on the board.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

How's that?

Please note I moved the warlord to the berzerks acc. to the 2 upgrades rule. But I'm thinking of either garrison them or popping them through the pithead.