about INF: I was looking into the compendium from 2012-08-09, the Squat list there seems to be outdated.

The new stats are even better, 1 AA 4+, battlecannon shot and a better armour save.

Together with the rather low point cost, that makes for one of the best flak screens in the entire game. Give me one army that can achive that kind of air cover with ground units! Eldar maybe, but they don't get 4+ and are usually on the move so the flak screen isn't that dense.

with garrison, the Thunderfires can most of the time be placed into cover, I might think, so they are even harder to hit.
Now they can even participate very well in the ground battle with the battlecannon shots.

And about being broken easily: maybe true, but most armies don't have too many units that shoot very far, and there's also the rest of the Squat army to deal with. Most enemy units that have that kind of range (75 cm) are usually more expensive too. Wasting that Shadowsword shot on a Thunderfire might not be such a good idea I think

There's nothing on the model to suggest flak cannons or in the fluff. At least none I've read.

Ya you can apply those same arguments to a flak battle car but:

1) The Land Train hasn't been fielded much in our group
2) It would be an option, so we're not forcing anyone to take it

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Squats 2019-10-17

maybe change the bezerker cars auto cannon to a hydra auto cannon or flak cannon & up its points

That might be a function of who in our group besides me actually owns a Land Train.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

That would be the argument I would make, and I need to be at least a little pragmatic about the list. I simply can't think of a reason for a support craft vehicle to NOT have flak. Hmmm, giant zeppelin raining death from above will never be targeted by airplanes... We don't need no stinkin' flak! And let's face it, the models for the Squats aren't exactly the most detailed. Every war engine would be bristling with little guns and doodads and the overlord especially should be massive (even at DC3).

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Imperial Guard. The Hydra is the finest unit in the entire game, hitting AP, AT, AA, moving 35cm, Armor 5+, and it is quite inexpensive. It can be fielded in formations of three or attached to pretty much any formation. And the Hydra has the added benefit of being supplemented by the Thunderbolt (the most economical air unit in the game).

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Sorry, Hydra has 30cm move and a 6+ armor.

I don't vote because I don't play squats. But, do they really need more air-cover? It is suicidal vor Air-Units to attack a Squat shooty castle with so much AA4+ fire. So IMO they don't need some.

The towed one seems ok.

I am inclined to say 'no' to the extra air cover. Recent games have been manageable, and I love fielding the Thunderers in threes. Expensive, but it creates a big bubble that is yours, and when you combine it with the Overlords, you have adequate coverage.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Just a thought:

Wouldn't it make sense to create a Light Thunderfire AA wagon, so people could build on existing setups. Possibly as a train car, but even better as a stand alone option so everything is not bundled in one army list entry.

Also I think we should have a Gyrocopter fighter and a Gyrocopter bomber. Imperial lists have tons of variations of bombers and fighters so I can't see why Squats shouldn't branch out a little bit and participate in that part of the game. If it was called Gyrocopter fighter and Gyrocopter bomber it would encourage players to use the existing Gyrocopter design to create their own (con)versions of them.

I wouldn't mind a light and moveable Colossus artillery piece either just for the heck of it.

All in all things that could keep with existing look and feel of the squat army but expand it with more modern options. As it is Squats are a little limited and I don't see why they should be.


#dontkillme

I think conversions and new units are great, but I don't want an existing player with all his old models to get hamstrung either. That's why I've been wanting to do a Trade Consortium list with all sorts of cool stuff. Of course, I've been delayed by other matters as you well know (publication day is coming soon!!!).

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

No desire to stick an alt AA mode on the gyrocopters?

No not at the moment

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
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So after quite a few games using the 1.4 list I've come up with my 2 cents to vote for the "AA on the Land Train" suggestion with the following reasoning:

1) Squats need something that can provide mobile air support. Without it, the emphasis is on castling up around the deployment zones with lots of artillery, thunderfire cannons and protection infantry. While this is effective, it's not a very interesting game for the squat player or the opponent

2) The Land Train is still looking for a 'reason' to exist. I like the general concept of the land train, it's a slow 'titan' war machine where you select the 2-4 battle cars like you would select 2-4 titan weapons on an imperial titan. But the current implementation is lacking a 'role'.

The land train starts out a lot like the colossus - A big Doomday cannon plus little guns. But not all the battle cars make sense:

Rad Bomb Car: Yes please. Makes sense. Combines with the Doomsday cannon to get that precious 4BP MW shot. Every train should have one and only one.

Bezerker Car: Sure it's fine. Puts the land train into a supporting role where it drives full speed into the opponent giving immense close combat and firefire support. A train can have up to 4 of these depending on how aggressive you plan to play your army.

Flamethrower Car: Okay...but kind of not needed. It has a role of flushing out troops in cover. But the Squat army already has an abundance of AP fire already and excellent IC from the Goliaths. I would probably leave this car at home.

Mortar Car: Worse than useless. Actually makes the train worse. There are many weapons you can stick on a titan, but none of them make the overall unit worse. The Mortar Car removes the amazing MW property of the Doomsday cannon. One of the most expensive weapons on a titan is the 3BP MW Quake Cannon and this car neuters it

Overall: The Land Train is good because it can be customized to your foes, but is glaringly missing AA doesn't have much support for AT fire. It also has one horrible choice.


My solution is to convert one of the cars over to AA fire. The useless mortar car can become a mobile AT/AA weapon similar to the thunderfire. Something like AA 5+ / 2xAT 3+.... 75pts Call it an airburst mortar or something.

Or if you really want to close match the models, swap the rad bomb and the mortar around. The Rad Bomb does kind of look like a surface to air missile and we get:
Rad Seeker Missile Car: AA 5+ / 2 x AT 3+......75 pts
Mortar Car: 1 BP, MW, Indirect ..... 125pts


Now we have a land train that has a role, to run up the middle with AA, 4BP Macro and lots of bezerker cars supporting a charge of warriors and bezerkers in rhinos and bikes.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll nudge Moscovian over this.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

I agree across the board and like the idea of the AA car stats. I'd even go a little farther and turn it into a Hydra-bases stat line. Up the price to 100-125 points.

Anyone have a thought on this?

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.