Tactical Command
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Ordo Xenos
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=22257		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Ordo Xenos
My first order of business as Inquisitor AC is to concentrate on the Ordo Xenos list for Moscovian's Epic: Xenos supplement. I've now gotten in a few games with the list and have a some thoughts. Before I make any changes, I would like to know who is currently playing Ordo Xenos and what people see as problems/areas of concern. I plan on using this thread for general discussion of the list.

So, who is currently playing Ordo Xenos? What units do you usually use and which ones do you not use? What changes would you like to see?
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
I got in a couple of games live and a coupe more on Vassal back a couple years back. In play the list felt... vanilla? That's not a bad thing, just an observation. Making the list felt like ordering off a diner menu - too many options, mostly in the way of aircraft. I like the sniper ability for the Deathwatch - seemed appropriate but not overpowered. The larger war engines I believe is where you have your work cut out for you. I expect you'll see some paper hitting the floor when the scissor comes out.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Where's the most recent Inq list? It should be moved to this sub-board and pinned.
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
I haven't played the Xenos, but I have played the Hereticus list, which has the same core Inquisition section. I'll give some feedback on it tomorrow.
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
nealhunt wrote:
Where's the most recent Inq list? It should be moved to this sub-board and pinned.

All three of the "Current" Inquisition list to be pinned and posted.

zombocom wrote:
I haven't played the Xenos, but I have played the Hereticus list, which has the same core Inquisition section.

I still don't understand (and annoyed) why the Hereticus and Mallues lists didn't make it into the Armybook 2012.

DS, do you plan on keeping a Core pattern to the three lists as present? Or totally turning them all upside down?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
DS, do you plan on keeping a Core pattern to the three lists as present? Or totally turning them all upside down?[/color]


I plan on keeping the structure of the lists as is.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Time for an update. The list seems in good shape so far, but it does need some tweaking.

Unless anyone can provide a solid reason to keep the Black Citadel, I'm going to delete it from the list. I've thought about also eliminating the Obsidian Fortress, but I'm going to keep it for now.

As for the Strategy Rating, I understand the argument for having a variable SR, but I think it discourages variety of formations. Therefore, the SR will be changed to a fixed 3.

The most important thing I need now is input from others. What do you like about the list? What don't you like? What changes would you like to see? Is there too much variety?

I don't really want to make changes without other players' input, but if no one chimes in...
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
What I like about the list:
*Deathwatch with the sniper ability. Seems to fit the character of the fluff without being over the top. I am still fuzzy as to how sniper works in assault, however, and anything you put out should include clarification on how that would work. This keeps people from searching around the forum for answers.
*The fact that you can pull from IG and SMs.
*The general feel of Inquisitorial formations being very tough.
*The well rounded strength of the list. It has been a long time since I have seen a list that doesn't have some aspect of it missing entirely (no aircraft, no flak, no scouts, no whatever). I subscribe to the belief that a list is defined by what it can AND can't do, but IG and SMs (and Orks for that matter) can pretty much do anything they want. It feels appropriate for the Inquisition list to be a solid unprovocative list.
*Stormtroopers. These are good choices for the Inquisition, fluffy, and (ahem) being written into the Xenos fiction. :) It would be nice if they stayed in some capacity, even if they are deploying without Valkyries.

What I don't like about the list:
*The Variable SR seems wrong; as wrong as it was for Necrons. Fixing it to 3 encourages a good mix of IG and SM.
*Black Citadel seems OTT and I concur it needs to go completely.
*There are a lot of aircraft. It seems like too much, although I don't necessarily have anything specific I'd point to getting rid of.

Questions:
*Do the SMs belong in there with the Deathwatch? If so, which formations?
*What issues have you seen in your games?
*Have you played with the Fortress yet?
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
I liked the variable SR - it was a penalty for trying to cherry pick the speciliast formations too much.

Still. it'll hardly break my heart.

---

the inquistion superheavies - which one is the dropper again?
Fluff wise, i think the drop fortress is marginally more justifiable then the crawler, but again, I've no hard opinion.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Well, I'll clarify my position: The dropping Obsidian Fortress IMO cannot be balanced for the tournament scenario as a planetfall unit. You could probably include it if you made it a standard immobile unit that can be garrisoned on your own half of table.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
that would make even more sense fluff wise. The inquisition are known to have scattered fortressess in key areas.
Author:  Dave [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
The sniper ability on the Deathwatch does seem over the top in my opinion, and has a bit of micro-management to it. You'd have to separate out your FF and CC rolls, allow the player to allocate FF hits where they want, and then have the opposing player allocate the CC attacks skipping over those that already have a FF Sniper hit on them. On top of that, all of the old Kill Team special armaments were geared towards taking out infantry, with Sniper you'll have Russes saving on a 5+RA though. I don't think it belongs here.

Here's the old Kill Team PDF in case anyone's interested:

http://www.borsoft.net/ilbastione/downl ... hwatch.pdf

Given that the special ammo are upgrades (things usually discounted in Epic stats) or special weapons like flamers/plasmagun/meltaguns (again not usually statted in Epic) I don't think we need to represent that kind of detail here.

So here's my suggestion for a Deathwatch Kill Team stats:

Code:
INF   15cm   4+   3+   4+   Scouts, Teleport
Hellfire Heavy Bolter   30cm   AP4+
Melta Bombs   (bc)   MW



They're power armored marines (Tacticals) so the INF/Armor/Speed values should stay the same. The CC3+, MW represents the fact that they are armed with Melta Bombs, can be armed CC power weapons and have "True Grit". Alternatively, going with CC4+ and EA(+1), MW would make it a little better if needed. Though they lack the Tactical's Missile Launcher they do have the special ammo and the Hellfire Heavy Bolter so FF4+ can stay I think. Teleport is the EA equivalent of Deep Strike and Scout seems fluffy from the Deathwatch books I've read.

For the formation, make it maybe 4 Deathwatch Kill Teams with a Captain or Librarian character. Start at maybe 275?
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Deathwatch can drop huge Tyranids with single shots sometimes. I'm not saying sniper is the end all be all, but there could be some way to finagle that special ability.

Otherwise working the weapons into the stats would do.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Can you link me to the current list?
I always wanted to do deathwatch and grey knight armies, but IIRC Lord I's list style was generally not to my preference (very detailed, lots of new stuff, lots of special rules?).
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ordo Xenos
Moscovian wrote:
Well, I'll clarify my position: The dropping Obsidian Fortress IMO cannot be balanced for the tournament scenario as a planetfall unit. You could probably include it if you made it a standard immobile unit that can be garrisoned on your own half of table.


Agreed. Balancing the Black Citadel, a Fearless WE with Planetfall, would be difficult to balance. I hadn't thought about keeping it as a standard unit that can be garrisoned. I'll give it some consideration, but I'm still not sure it's even needed.
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