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Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3

 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Kealios wrote:
Ive seen precedence where a unit is listed in its datafax as getting a different stat depending on which payload you take. I may even try to find it :)

Chaos Daemon Princes change their armour rating and speed depending on whether or not they have wings.

I'm increasingly disenchanted with that idea. It's one thing to have a couple weapon loadouts, but changing stats which affect the battlefield role in dramatic ways is another. I really think radical choices should be listed as separate unit types instead of being lumped together.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:11 pm 
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I agree with Neal, I prefer split profiles for clarity reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:23 pm 
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OK :) Just put out v1.2 so I can consolidate all your changes into one document! I played a scenario last night with v1.1 and some tweaks, but not all of them...


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Kealios wrote:
OK :) Just put out v1.2 so I can consolidate all your changes into one document! I played a scenario last night with v1.1 and some tweaks, but not all of them...


I can't put out a full 1.2 until a last few issues are squared with Lord I, but I can put out a 1.2 draft with the most likely options.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:33 am 
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I think we're pretty much agreed on most points and you know my opinion on those that we don't. For the time being just go with what you want to do. Your choice on the penitents and arcos as well ... They may be cut from Ordo Hereticus. The only bone of contention is the dominions, which I think should be modelled after the fire dragons or abstracted to having multimeltas ... but I'm not going to fight too much.

Put together the changes and get it out - after all we can always change the changes but it's good to get playtesting!


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:31 am 
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Belatedly updated to version 1.2 based on the changes agreed in this thread.

Attachment:
Adeptus Ministorum v1-2.pdf [104.04 KiB]
Downloaded 305 times


Changes:

Removed Order Famulous Inductions
Renamed imperial guard company to Fraternis Militia, moved to ecclesiarchy
Renamed sentinel forumation to Militia Scout Squadron, moved to ecclesiarchy
Removed baneblade, thunderbolts, marauders and lunar class cruiser
Removed Priest upgrade from Adepta Sororitas Convent
Removed Supreme Commander from Repentia
Renamed Immolator to Immolator (Standard Pattern)
Added Immolator (Justice Pattern)
Added Lightning Fighter
Removed Faithful from the sororitas characters and added it to all sororitas units other than repentia
Changed Faithful rule to only affect Faithful units (not much of a change since the vehicles have gained it anyway)
Change Faithful to give Reinforced Armour instead of Thick Rear Armour and Invulnerable Save
Palatine gained Inspiring and MW on the CC EA, which was renamed to Blessed Weapon
Reduced Allies contingent to ¼
Added dominions to transport options for rhino, immolators and repressor (typo fix)
Reduced exorcist range back to 45cm
Renamed Cardinal and Priest Evicerator to Holy Evicerator
Increased Immolator (Standard Pattern) FF to 3+
Decreased Penitent Engine CC to 5+ and increased its Extra Attacks to +2
Added Penitents upgrade to the Flagellation Pilgrimage


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:48 am 
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Future things that need looking into, ignoring the stat variations from Lord I's list for now...

Redemptionists - They're currently pretty pointless as anything other than a cheap meat shield. Can something be done to make them more interesting?

CC4+? It could represent exterminators and zealots with evicerators and massive weapons etc.

A ranged weapon? While they don't use heavy weapons in Necromunda, they do use plasma guns and grenade launchers. The 40k chapter approved sisters list with redemptionists also gave them access to heavy weapons.

A transport option? Chimeras, land transports, pulpiteks....

Mobile Chapels/Cathedrals - It's about time I came up with stats for these!

DC3 chapel, something like a baneblade-sized transport with a larger exorcist launcher or a giant flamer or something.
DC6-8 Cathedral with various weapons and a large transport capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:08 am 
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zombocom wrote:
Changes:

Removed Order Famulous Inductions
Renamed imperial guard company to Fraternis Militia, moved to ecclesiarchy
Renamed sentinel forumation to Militia Scout Squadron, moved to ecclesiarchy
Removed baneblade, thunderbolts, marauders and lunar class cruiser
Removed Priest upgrade from Adepta Sororitas Convent
Removed Supreme Commander from Repentia
Renamed Immolator to Immolator (Standard Pattern)
Added Immolator (Justice Pattern)
Added Lightning Fighter
Removed Faithful from the sororitas characters and added it to all sororitas units other than repentia
Changed Faithful rule to only affect Faithful units (not much of a change since the vehicles have gained it anyway)
Change Faithful to give Reinforced Armour instead of Thick Rear Armour and Invulnerable Save
Palatine gained Inspiring and MW on the CC EA, which was renamed to Blessed Weapon
Reduced Allies contingent to ¼
Added dominions to transport options for rhino, immolators and repressor (typo fix)
Reduced exorcist range back to 45cm
Renamed Cardinal and Priest Evicerator to Holy Evicerator
Increased Immolator (Standard Pattern) FF to 3+
Decreased Penitent Engine CC to 5+ and increased its Extra Attacks to +2
Added Penitents upgrade to the Flagellation Pilgrimage

I like all the changes. A couple of comments though...

Really like the new Faithful rule. Seems more worth it.

Should Fraternis Militia and Redemptionist Crusade have Supreme Commander in a Sister list tho?? I think maybe limiting SC to only Sisters would be a nice touch.

Nice to see patterns for the Immolators. But should the Standard Pattern have IC add to its FF?? Typo?


zombocom wrote:
Future things that need looking into, ignoring the stat variations from Lord I's list for now...

Redemptionists - They're currently pretty pointless as anything other than a cheap meat shield. Can something be done to make them more interesting?

I really don't know. I don't know the fluff behind it well enough to give an idea.

zombocom wrote:
Mobile Chapels/Cathedrals - It's about time I came up with stats for these!

DC3 chapel, something like a baneblade-sized transport with a larger exorcist launcher or a giant flamer or something.
DC6-8 Cathedral with various weapons and a large transport capacity.
I'm glad to see this being started...

Do you want the Chapel's to be more of a transport/base or more of a SHT with Transport? I have some ideas I'm going to formulated into a cohesive thought and get back to you soon.

Btw, will we see some Homemade Proxy for said Chapel and Cathedral?? If so I may wet me self with happiness...=)


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:20 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Should Fraternis Militia and Redemptionist Crusade have Supreme Commander in a Sister list tho?? I think maybe limiting SC to only Sisters would be a nice touch.


It's not a sisters list, it's an adeptus ministorum list, and as such very high ranking priests can be present, of easily supreme commander level.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Nice to see patterns for the Immolators. But should the Standard Pattern have IC add to its FF?? Typo?


No similar official vehicles (and just about nothing else official) has Ignore Cover FF. Hellhounds, skorchas etc.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Do you want the Chapel's to be more of a transport/base or more of a SHT with Transport? I have some ideas I'm going to formulated into a cohesive thought and get back to you soon.


For the chapel, more like a superheavy with transport capacity. Something like the 40k stormlord.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Btw, will we see some Homemade Proxy for said Chapel and Cathedral?? If so I may wet me self with happiness...=)


I won't be matter printing designs for them if that's what you mean; the costs would be huge.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 am 
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Quote:
I won't be matter printing designs for them if that's what you mean; the costs would be huge.

That's sad =(

The rest of your answers makes sense.

Here's my attempt at Chapels and a Cathedral. IIRC these WE could replace all SHT and/or Titans from the list, So I made a few variants and made more than just Transports. (As a note I'm not sure to make them Fearless or able to be affected by Faithful) Also there should be a Adeptus Sororitus Strike Cruiser or Navy Cruiser in the list.

1/3 of your Army maybe of the following WE(Assuming Titans are deleted but leaving Navy as 1/4?)

Chapel Detachment 250 Points
1 Chapel (Any Variant)
Upgrades: 0-2 Chapels (Any Variant) 200 Each

0-1 Holy Cathedral 800 Points
Upgrades: 2 Chapels (Any Variant but must be the same) 500

-----Units Datafaxes-----

Chapel of Cleansing WE Speed 5cm Amour 4+(RA) CC 6+ FF 4+

Cleansing Flame 15cm 1 BP Ignores Cover
2x Twin Heavy Flamers 15cm AP3+ Ignores Cover

Notes: DC 3, 1 Void Shield, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Walker, Planetfall
Critical: Heavy Damage effects structural stability and crew of the Chapel. Chapel is now Immobilized and takes 1 DC of Damage. Any further Criticals will destroy the Chapel.

Chapel of Sanctuary WE Speed 5cm Amour 4+(RA) CC 6+ FF 4+

4x Twin Heavy Bolters 30cm AP4+
Assault Flamers (Gives Ignore Cover to all FF attacks)
Wall Battlements (EA FF for every 2 Stands Transported)

Notes: DC 3, 1 Void Shield, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Walker, Planetfall, Transport 4 Stands (Sisters Only)
Critical: Heavy Damage effects structural stability and crew of the Chapel. Chapel is now Immobilized and takes 1 DC of Damage. Any further Criticals will destroy the Chapel.

Chapel of Redemption WE Speed 5cm Amour 4+(RA) CC 6+ FF 4+

Melta Blaster 30cm MW3+ TK(D3) FxF
2x Mutil Melta 15cm MW4+ (MW FF)

Notes: DC 3, 1 Void Shield, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Walker, Planetfall
Critical: Heavy Damage effects structural stability and crew of the Chapel. Chapel is now Immobilized and takes 1 DC of Damage. Any further Criticals will destroy the Chapel.

Holy Cathedral WE Speed 5cm Amour 4+(RA) CC 5+ FF 3+

2x Melta Blaster 30cm MW3+ TK(D3) Fwd
Holy Cleansing Flame 30cm 3 BP Ignore Cover
4x Heavy Flamers 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Assault Flamers (Gives Ignore Cover to all FF attacks)

Notes: DC 8, 4 Void Shield, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Walker, Planetfall, Transport 10 Stands (Sisters Only)
Critical: Bulkheads rupture and menials panic. Takes 1 DC of Damage and the Cathedral is Immobilized. Any further Criticals will cause D3 Extra Damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Thanks Angel, there are a lot of good ideas there I'll definitely be using as inspiration.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Also there should be a Adeptus Sororitus Strike Cruiser or Navy Cruiser in the list.


The Ecclesiarchy are banned from having their own space ships due to the decree passive, meaning that there are no Adepta Sororitas Strike Cruisers in the 40k universe; they are transported either by the imperial navy or the inquisition. Earlier versions of the list had a navy cruiser, but I removed it in this version to focus more on the ecclesiarchy and less on their allies. It may return in a future version.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Oh, another change from the previous version that I forgot to note; I removed first strike from the Mistress' Neural Whips, because it was actually a massive disadvantage; if she killed the base she was in contact with in the first stike phase, the unit she was with wouldn't get to use their MW attack as they'd no longer be in combat!


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:04 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Thanks Angel, there are a lot of good ideas there I'll definitely be using as inspiration.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Also there should be a Adeptus Sororitus Strike Cruiser or Navy Cruiser in the list.


The Ecclesiarchy are banned from having their own space ships due to the decree passive, meaning that there are no Adepta Sororitas Strike Cruisers in the 40k universe; they are transported either by the imperial navy or the inquisition. Earlier versions of the list had a navy cruiser, but I removed it in this version to focus more on the ecclesiarchy and less on their allies. It may return in a future version.

Ahh...I thought there was a Navy Ship before. Teaches me to read the list changes before I talk. The reason I bring it up is that I gave the Chapel's PlanetFall and you need a Spacecraft for that. Thought it would be fluffy to see Chapels falling from the sky and then slowly moving across the battlefield.

Well I'm glad my idea's weren't a big pile of Nid Dung =)

What part did you like and what you didn't?? Just so I can get a better handle for further list development. How were the formations and point costs??


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:13 pm 
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I particularly like the use of larger scale melta and flame weaponry, expecially the ignore cover BP on some of them.

I'm also tempted by the idea of multiple chapels, but will likely start off with just one.

On the downside, 5cm move and short gun ranges makes them pretty ineffective. I'll likely go with a 15cm move on the baneblade-equivilent chapel, perhaps 10cm on the cathedral. I'll probably have some longer ranged weaponry too, to fill a niche in the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:29 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
I particularly like the use of larger scale melta and flame weaponry, especially the ignore cover BP on some of them.
I thought they were neat, I'm glad you like them!

zombocom wrote:
I'm also tempted by the idea of multiple chapels, but will likely start off with just one.
Sounds good. I was just trying full the niches without making one Uber Chapel.

zombocom wrote:
On the downside, 5cm move and short gun ranges makes them pretty ineffective. I'll likely go with a 15cm move on the baneblade-equivalent chapel, perhaps 10cm on the cathedral. I'll probably have some longer ranged weaponry too, to fill a niche in the list.
The reason for the slow movement was because I gave them PlanetFall. Dropping an Armored Fortress carrying Troops and than zipping around seemed a bit much maybe. But 15cm seem good if there not dropping from the air or even both would be ok too. =)

The reason I stay with shorter range was that most of the Sisters weaponry were short. Wasn't sure if you wanted that to be the same or different. I would much rather see long range weapons on the chapels. Mainly on the Cleaning Flame weapons, be nice to have range 30-45cm ish. And I tried not to make up too much stuff and used more of the SoB mainline weapons. Like the Mela Blaster is the Melta Cannon from the AMTL just reduced a bit, thought maybe it was too powerful on the chapel in its AMTL state. Also what did you think of the transported units being able to FF out? And also Assault Flamers giving the unit IC FF??

Were the points close or overcosted or undercosted??

Hope to see your tweaked version soon!


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