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Author:	Mortimer [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
I was wondering if anyones made up some army lists, preferably of the original chapters and perhaps Imperial Guard, Adeptus Mechanicus and their traitor counterparts to 'relive' the Horus Heresy? I know the differences in units is sketchy, just wondered if anyones given it ago (Any system, Armageddon, Net, etc).

Author:	Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
All of the army lists from AT/SM1 are Horus Heresy era.

Author:	Warmaster Nice [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Indeed. Off the top of my head: Marines get: Tacticals in Land Raiders (if you want) Jet Bikes Various field artillery: Mole Mortars, Thudd Guns, Rapiers and Tarentulas I could remember this wrong, but I think HQunits were often terminator units. Capitol Imperialis HQs. Overall the marines fight more like a mobile guard army and rely less on airpower than "modern" marines. Guard isn't very different from today, though to differentiate them from Marines you'd proably want to limit the ammount of very mobile troops and have more footslogging infantry, artillery and battle tanks. Adeptus Mechanicus and Titans are petty much the same deal. (Though some fluff indicate you'd have seen formations where warhounds operate in larger "packs" than the 2 unit formations of today. Depending a bit on werther you go by the old or the newer fluff, Warlord titans or Reaver titans would be the most predominant titan type of the time respectively) Traitors are essentially the same as their loyalist counterparts as they've only just turned to Chaos. I suppose you could do some house rules to represent a few particularly corrupted units that would have enhanced stats compared to loyalists.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
I pondered the project for a while, and will one day return to it (i.e. when I finish painting my modern Epic armies). Other things of note - Guard were using Rhinos (IIRC), a lot of vehicle variants didn't exist, and everyone liked big formations. Well, almost everyone.

Author:	DNME [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Indeed they are mainly sm1 as i remember reading in an early white dwarf about the horus heresy and stuff coming out for sm1. Even remember there being 2 different jet bikes one single marine another a 2 marine heavy version! and reading how they had thudd guns in buildings! certainly more detailed rules/data for units. May be worth having a look at the early white dwarfs there is a list of articles in each white dwarf which can help narrow the search can't remember the link but i think from the netepic site was a link.

Author:	Mortimer [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Well, lets see if we can compile something, a list of whats available. So if you can confirm any of the below's place in the heresy we can remove ? marks ... please feel free to suggest additions. Space Marines Terminator Squads - Yes Tactical Squads - Yes Devastator Squads - Yes Assault Squads (With Jump Packs) - Yes Scout Squads - No Dreadnoughts - Yes Robots - Yes Thudd Guns - Yes Rapier Laser Destroyers - Yes Tarantulas - Yes Mole Mortars - Yes Bike Squads - Yes Attack Bikes - No Jetbike Squads - Yes Land Speeder - Yes LS Tornado - No LS Typhoon - No LS Tempest - No LS Storm - No Rhino - Yes Damocles Rhino - No? Razorback - No Land Raider - Yes LR Prometheus - No LR Crusader - No LR Redeemer - No LR Ares - No LR Terminus Ultra - No Helios LR - No LR Spartan - Yes Predator Destructor - Yes Predator Annihilator - No Vindicator - Yes Whirlwind - Yes Whirlwind Hyperios - Yes Hunter - No Sabre - Yes Capital Imperialis - Yes Thunderhawk Gunship - Yes Thunderhawk Transport - No? Landing Craft - Maybe Storm Bird - Yes Terminate - Yes Mole - Ã‚Â Yes Imperial Guard Infantry - Yes Fire Support - Yes Snipers - Yes Ogryns - Yes Robots - Yes Thudd Guns - Yes Rapier Laser Destroyers - Yes Tarantulas - Yes Mole Mortars - Yes Storm Troopers - Yes Valkyries - No Vultures - No Rough Riders - Yes Sentinels - Yes Salamander - No? Leman Russ - Yes LR Conqueror - No? LR Demolisher - Maybe? LR Executioner - No? LR Exterminator - No? LR Vanquisher - No? Chimera - No? Rhino - Yes Hellhound - Maybe? Hydra - Maybe? Destroyer Tank Hunter - No? Thunderer Siege Tank - No? Griffon - Maybe? Basilisk - Yes Bombard - Yes Medusa - No? Manticore - Yes Deathstrike - No? Baneblade - Yes Shadowsword/Mammoth - Yes? Stormblade - No? Stormhammer - Maybe? Stormsword - No? Gorgon - Yes Leviathan - Maybe? Terminate - Yes Mole - Ã‚Â Yes Hellbore - Yes Imperial Navy? Thunderbolt - No Marauder - No Lightning - No Lightning Strike - No Marauder Destroyer - No Marauder Vigilant - No Titan Legions Warhound - Yes Reaver - Yes Warlord - Yes Emperor - Yes I'll leave the traitors and admech for later.

Author:	deacon [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:43 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Are we going by the AT fluff - or the newer stuff in the horus heresy books? I'm 5 books into the HH series, so I can lend a hand there. Marines: Assault squads - I'd say yes - the world eaters were all about the assault even before they turned. Scouts - No sign of scouts, so I'd agree. Dreds - there are dreds, though they look like the old epic dreds, not the current ones. Bikes - I havent read anything about bikes yet, of any type. Speeders - same with speeders, though I know they had basic ones. Other Vehicles - All basic, no fancy upgrades Thunderhawks - They have them, but they are brand new. Marines use "Storm Birds" - big arse transports. Thunderhawks are considered "small" by comparison. Guard - cant say much - they're basically bullet shields in the books so far. Imperial Navy - According to old epic fluff, the gift of flight was lost during the age of strife - I'd say no to all "inner-atmosphere" aircraft. Titans - All of those are present. An imperator was present on Istvaan III - The first battle of the Heresy. And it survived a massive planet-wide virus bombing, followed by a planet consuming firebombing. Something to add to the AdMech - Ordinatus Mars was built for the sole purpose of defeating the traitors in the AdMech that were holed up in the Jerico Tower on Mars.

Author:	Mortimer [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:51 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Thanks deacon, updated the list somewhat from your comments ... as to what source to use, I'd say a combination of both would be best ... so not favoring one source over another just yet. For 'Other Vehicles' do you know if they have Whirlwinds and Razorbacks from the novels? Well I'll continue on for now, onto the Traitors. Traitor Legions Chosen/Terminators - Yes Possessed - Yes? Chaos Space Marines/Tactical - Yes Havocs/Devastators - Yes Raptors/Assault - Yes Obliterators - No Berserkers - Yes Noise Marines - Yes Plague Marines - Yes Thousand Sons - No (Extra Sorcerers/Librarians instead for the Legion) Dreadnought - Yes (But perhaps identical to its Loyalist counterpart) Defiler - No? Bike Squads - Yes Jetbike Squads - Yes Land Speeder - Yes Rhino - Yes Land Raider - Yes LR Spartan - Yes Predator - Yes (I imagine the loyalist one would actually mirror this one rather than vice versa?) Vindicator - Yes Whirlwind - Yes Whirlwind Hyperios - Yes Sabre - Yes Death Wheel - No Decimator - No Hellblade - No? Helltalon - No? Thunderhawk Gunship - Yes? Thunderhawk Transport - No? Landing Craft - Maybe Storm Bird - Yes Terminate - Yes Mole - Yes Warhound Titan - Yes Reaver Titan - Yes Warlord Titan - Yes Feral Titan - Maybe? Ravager Titan - Maybe? Banelord/Plaguelord/Painlord/Warplord Titan - Maybe? Lost and the Damned/Traitor Guard Cultists - Yes (At least Infantry) Fire Support - Yes Mutants - Yes Big Mutants - Maybe? Chaos Hounds - Maybe? Plague Zombies - No? Rough Riders - Yes Sentinels - Yes Leman Russ - Yes Chimera - No? Rhino - Yes? Hellhound - Maybe? Hydra - Maybe? Griffon - Maybe? Basilisk - Yes Hellfire Cannon - Maybe? Defiler - No? Altar of Chaos - Maybe? Thunderbolt - No Marauder - No Daemon Engines of Khorne - Maybe? Lord of Battles - Maybe? Contagion Towers - Maybe? Plague Tower - Maybe? Daemon Knights of Slaanesh - Yes? Subjugator - Maybe? Questor - Maybe? Doom Wing - No? Silver Tower - No? Fire Lord - No? General Daemon Pool Bloodthirster - Yes Bloodletters - Yes Flesh Hounds - Yes Bloodcrushers - Yes? Great Unclean One - Yes Plaguebearers - Yes Nurglings - Yes Beasts of Nurgle - Yes? Keeper of Secrets - Yes Daemonettes - Yes Steeds of Slaanesh - Yes? Fiends - Yes? Lord of Change - Yes Horrors - Yes Flamers - Yes Screamers - Yes? Furies - Maybe? Daemonic Beasts - Maybe? Daemon Princes - No? (Had Horus, Angron, Magnus and the rest been daemonized yet?)

Author:	frogbear [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Check out the Bell of Lost Souls site. They had a Heresy game that you could use to help you with the list.

Author:	netepic [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
A few points, during the Heresy, Legions had their own titans. It was only post Heresy that titans were divorced from the marine chapters. Warhound formations were also reduced in size according to the fluff, they used to run around in hunter killer teams of up to 12. I don't think this was represented in the rules though. Sons of Horus were an all Terminator Legion (best equipped courtesy of Horus) Ultramarines were vehicle specialists, Space Wolves were drop specialists and Blood Angels were assault specialists. Some conflicting information here - but make of it what you will. Space Marine Rulebook: Tactical Detachment 4 Tactical Stands 4 Support Stands 2 Commanders 500 points Assault Detachment 4 Assault Stands 1 Commander 300 points Devastator Detachment 4 Devastator Stands 1 Commander 460 points Land Raider Detachment 2 Land Raiders 400 points Rhino Detachment 4 Rhinos 180 points Whirlwind Detachment 4 Whirlwinds 240 points Codex Titanicus: SPACE MARINES Tactical Detachment 8 x Tactical Stand 2 x Commander Assault Detachment 4 x Assault Stand 1 x Commander Devastator Detachment 4 x Devastator Stand 1 x Commander Predator Detachment 4 x Predator 540 Vindicator Detachment 4 x Vindicator 360 Termite Detachment 4 x Termite 420 Mole Detachment 2 x Mole 360 Bike Detachment 6 x Bike 150 Sidecar Detachment 6 x Bike Combo 150 Jet Bike Detachment 6 x Jet Bike 180 Land Speeder Detachment 6 x Land Speeder 240 Rapier Detachment 4 x Rapier 180 Tarantula Detachment 4 x Tarantula 160 Mole Mortar Detachment 6 x Mole Mortar 120 Thudd Gun Detachment 6 x Thudd Gun 120 Sentinel Detachment 4 x Sentinel Light Detachment 4 x Derendo Heavy Detachment 4 x Furibundus IMPERIAL ROBOTS Castellan maniple 4 x Castellan 105 points Cataphract maniple 4 x Cataphract 165 points Colossus maniple 4 x Colossus 120 points Conqueror maniple 4 x Conqueror 120 points Crusader maniple 4 x Crusader 165 points ORKS Orks Warband 1 x Warboss Stand 2 x Noble Stand 8 x Ã¢â‚¬ËœEavyboyz Stand 6 x Boyz Stand 650 Stormboyz 6 x Stormboyz Stand 2 x Commander 350 Madboyz 4 x Madboyz Stand 120 Field Gun Detachment 4 x Field Gun 80 War Buggy Detachment 4 x War Buggy 220 Warbike 4 x Warbike 220 Wartrak 4 x Wartrak 180 Battlewagon Detachment 4 x Battlewagon 300 Killer Detachment 4 x Killer Dreadnought 100 Onslaughter Detachment 4 x Onslaughter Dreadnoughts 260 ELDAR Swooping Hawk Detachment 6 x Swooping Hawk Stand 2 x Commander 430 Avenging Warrior Detachment 6 x Avenging Warrior Stand 2 x Commander 580 Grav-Tank Detachment 3 x Falcon Grav-Tank 420 Field Artillery Detachment 3 x Field Artillery Unit 120 Jet Cycle Detachment 6 x Jet Cycles 180 War Cry Dreadnought Detachment 3 x War Cry Dreadnought 180 Banshee Dreadnought Detachment 3 x Banshee Dreadnought 180 Spirit Warrior Detachment 3 x Vampire Spirit Warrior 135 War Walker Detachment 3 x War Walker 270

Author:	frogbear [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:09 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Quote: (netepic @ Feb. 05 2010, 17:14 ) Sons of Horus were an all Terminator Legion (best equipped courtesy of Horus) Are you sure about this? I thought they had jump packers....

Author:	Blish [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Quote: (netepic @ Feb. 05 2010, 08:14 ) Sons of Horus were an all Terminator Legion (best equipped courtesy of Horus) Um, I don't think that's quite true.

Author:	netepic [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Quote: (Blish @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:19 ) Quote: (netepic @ Feb. 05 2010, 08:14 ) Sons of Horus were an all Terminator Legion (best equipped courtesy of Horus) Um, I don't think that's quite true. Balls , I've been unable to find evidence to back up my claim. Hmmm.... HMMMMM.... I might have to retract that statement . I also should add a disclaimer that the points listed are the original SM1 Battle Ratings of the formations so shouldn't really be used as a guideline.

Author:	Blish [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
Quote: (netepic @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:55 ) Quote: (Blish @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:19 ) Quote: (netepic @ Feb. 05 2010, 08:14 ) Sons of Horus were an all Terminator Legion (best equipped courtesy of Horus) Um, I don't think that's quite true. Balls , I've been unable to find evidence to back up my claim. Hmmm.... HMMMMM.... I might have to retract that statement . I also should add a disclaimer that the points listed are the original SM1 Battle Ratings of the formations so shouldn't really be used as a guideline. I think you will find two legions such as the Sons of Horus and Mentor Legion, both had legions where most if not all of the men in the legion had been classed as a Sargent and as such had Terminator Honors, but not access to the equipment. The mentor legion went even further where every unit had a Vortex missile launcher.

Author:	Warmaster Nice [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
I've dug out the old WD articles and the rulebooks. Here's a few points: 1: The two man jetboke with a heavy weapon: I think it is pretty safe to assume this is a Land Speeder (It fits the description of the original model) 2: Marie gear (and again: The same stuff would have been available to the traitor legions): Behemoth (CI) Terminator Regimantal HQ Regular terminators available in limited numbers Limited number of CIs Rhinos, Predators Whirlwinds Vindicators Land Raiders Drop Pods Land Speeders Jet Bikes Motorbikes (regular bikes AND attackbikes) Dreadnoughts Robots Tarentulas Mole MOrtars Thudd Guns Rapiers Termites Moles Dropship Hellbore (only available to Blood Angels and Ultramarines under special circumstances) 3: Knights would also have been available to the imperial army, and Slaanesh oriented traitors. 4: Imperial guard units: Shadowsword (there's mention of the Mammoth tank which is supposed to be a precursor of the shadowsword) Baneblade Leman Russ Bombard Manticore Basilisk Gorgon Sentinel Robot Mole Termite Hellbore Rough Riders Jump Pack infantry Ratlings Ogryns Beastmen Tarentulas Mole Mortars Thudd Guns Rapiers The Visions of War books also have a number of intersting images, including hover-rhinos, a number of adeptus Mechanicus praetorians

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