Tactical Command :: View topic - Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible?

I recently played my first game of 40K since the new rulebook came out.

Quote:

I recently played my first game of 40K since the new rulebook came out.

Well, that was your first mistake.

I take it that this is from experience? If not, you may not like the next line. ::)

I really do believe that snobbery of other systems without experiencing them first is really limiting oneself in not only experiencing gaming as a hobby as a whole but also as a game or list designer

actually no, they really dont.
basic orks and basic guardsman cost about the same, but one has BS3 and access to First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, while the other has BS2 and an 18inch range gun. (that being said, point for point, they do shoot better than necrons do)
lootas, however, are the king shit, they are very very good value, and chock full of dakka

...
...Now it appears that the new codex Orks allows further options. Being the case, and without really reading any other Codex, I cannot see how they are not one of the best/strongest forces to ever hit a 40k table. I have so many options for gameplay and I have not even created a close assault army with them yet!

Anyone else have a similar experience?

I interviewed with GW a few years back to design 40k codexes …
40k is not a game I personally really enjoy playing,

Author:	frogbear [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:05 am ]
Post subject:	Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible?
I recently played my first game of 40K since the new rulebook came out. I took out all my old RT Ork miniatures as well as some I have collected along the way and made the following force: Ghazghkull Ork Boyz x 20 + 2x Rokkit Launchers Gretchin x15 + Runtherd Lootas x10 Lootas x10 Nobz x6 + Warbikes Killa Kans x3 + 3x Rokkit Lauchers Battlewagon Meganobz x5 (bought as troop types) I came up against an IG force that outnumberred me and had 2x Chimera, a demolisher, an Airplane!, and a Basilisk. Now although there was a little good and bad luck at times, I think I lost a total of 10 models before the IG force was down to a level that they could not claim an objective (although they had 5 large scoring units to my 3) and he had to give up as I had swamped two objectives. I did most of this by shooting the lootas, walking the boyz and Gretchin up (shooting all the way), and the bikes flanking around and letting loose. Now I must have played over 50 40k games under various rules and each time I know that ork shooting forces never used to work. It was always a turn 1 (and usually turn 2) slog up the table for a HtH finale that saw the Orks rip through their opponents puerely on aggression through numbers. Now it appears that the new codex Orks allows further options. Being the case, and without really reading any other Codex, I cannot see how they are not one of the best/strongest forces to ever hit a 40k table. I have so many options for gameplay and I have not even created a close assault army with them yet! Anyone else have a similar experience?

Author:	Spectrar Ghost [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
IG can now take just about any of their armor in squdrons of up to three: Russes, Basilisks, Hellhounds, etc. They can take real Mech Inf straight out of the book, instead of having to purchase a doctrine or Armored Fist Squads. A foot platoon consisting of a Command Squad with Power Weapon, Vox, Flamer, and AC, and five Squads with Vox, Flamer and AC works out to 410pt; you could easily fit 175 men in a standard army. Oh yeah, and Deathstrikes. In 40k. 'Nuff said. The old 2k list I have is for 1 Company Command Squad (Mech), 2 Mech Platoons of a Platoon Command and three Squads each, a Vanquisher, two Leman Russ, and a Basilisk. That's 75 men, 9 APCs, 3 tanks, and an SPG in 2k.' I've not taken them out for just about 2 years, though.

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
Quote: I recently played my first game of 40K since the new rulebook came out. Well, that was your first mistake. Point-for-point, Orks shoot about as well as Imperial Guardsmen these days.

Author:	Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
actually no, they really dont. basic orks and basic guardsman cost about the same, but one has BS3 and access to First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, while the other has BS2 and an 18inch range gun. (that being said, point for point, they do shoot better than necrons do) lootas, however, are the king shit, they are very very good value, and chock full of dakka

Author:	frogbear [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
Evil and Chaos wrote: Quote: I recently played my first game of 40K since the new rulebook came out. Well, that was your first mistake. I take it that this is from experience? If not, you may not like the next line. I really do believe that snobbery of other systems without experiencing them first is really limiting oneself in not only experiencing gaming as a hobby as a whole but also as a game or list designer - that person is also limiting their experiences and potential to provide something outside of the 'run of the mill' options. I have heard some people even state that Epic:A is the only game they play. If that is true, then I really feel sorry for them as although it is a good game, there are so many other games out there that offer the same if not a better experience with a different hook. A closed mind will never see the sky past the cave even if they have proof that the sky exists. So snobbery for the sake of snobbery is really a bad idea IMO. As for the 40K rule set: well it is quite basic and not what I remember. I will probably play it with the guys that you only see if you offer them a game of 40K (as they play nothing else due to either choice or budget reasons). Otherwise, it is just another experience in a World Wide industry that provides more options than I will ever get to fully experience - which is a shame.

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

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Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
Quote: I take it that this is from experience? If not, you may not like the next line. I really do believe that snobbery of other systems without experiencing them first is really limiting oneself in not only experiencing gaming as a hobby as a whole but also as a game or list designer I interviewed with GW a few years back to design 40k codexes and WFB Armybooks, so yeah, I'm talking from experience. 40k is not a game I personally really enjoy playing, the child-intended rules system is very constrictive on your in-game tactical options, leading to a very "railroad" style gaming experience. It's fantastically well-designed as a children's game, but it's no good as an adult's wargame (Unless you just want to switch off your brain and roll some dice).

Author:	madd0ct0r [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
I would point out that both orks and IG are top tier armies. (I'd also point out that deathstrikes are never taken by anyone sane) Frogbear's list is a nice mesh of a couple of netlists - he's got a nice all comers force with a pretty balanced approach. 2 waves - battlewagon, krew and the biker nobz. Meanwhile the boyz walk up field behind the durable kanz and the lootas target enemy transports. What was the IG fielding? Their troops aren't meant to be doing the heavy lifting of the list. Orks are all about the boyz for hammering. IG platoons are to take and hold objectives, pin big things in combat or decorate you with lasgun light if you're silly enough to let them get "First rank Fire!' on you.

Author:	bloodwars [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
sounds like a not great IG list. I never have a list with less then 5 chimeras, use one normal IG slot (command + 2x inf + special weapons teams to put in valkyries) and the rest vets (bs 4, 3x special weapons) + command HQ squads (4x specials) all in chimeras... psyker battle squads, 3x valkyries, 2x2 hydras, 1x3 griffon... pretty killy. also basilisks are pretty weak, BS 3 IG w/o transports aren't a good investment except as bubblewrap to protect your tanks. Hydras can wreck bike nobz and griffons re-roll scatter, so they do well as anti horde. valks with pods can move and fire 2 str 4 blast a turn, keep their save and stay away from most of your guys. three of them is a pain (though i run 2 ven's normally). you have a pretty good list though. might want to consider the big mech KFF for 5+ saves on tanks lootas are strong, nobz bikes w/ wound allocation is strong, gaz w/ megas in a BW is strong (or burnas in a vehicle). oh yeah, deffrollas. DE is probably the best overall right now (though they die fast), then IG/space wolf... BA are great above 1500 points, but have two really bad matchups that didn't exist when they came out (DE/GK). Orks are probably the next on the list. DE have retarded firepower and speed... and no defense. as far as game systems, netepic wins its easy and makes sense. i like 2e WH40k a lot (and necromunda), since i started there, and VOR is pretty good and more open ended... and their version of tyranids can actually kill tanks . I have a full set of chainmail 2002, but its a bit eh for me. I guess I'm stuck in 1997, even though I was, like, 14 at the time.

Author:	Yaleling [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
frogbear wrote: ... ...Now it appears that the new codex Orks allows further options. Being the case, and without really reading any other Codex, I cannot see how they are not one of the best/strongest forces to ever hit a 40k table. I have so many options for gameplay and I have not even created a close assault army with them yet! Anyone else have a similar experience? Hi Frogbear, Yep, I've had similar experiences, as recently as last weekend. I see the flexibility of the ork codex as a sign of a well made and flexible codex. Back in 2nd ed my orks were so lousy at CC that I went shooty by default, and they turned out to be pretty good at it. When 3rd edition came along I was thrilled that orks now matched the background more closely and could punch on in assault. But it was quite one dimensional. Now orks can be as shooty as you want them to be (and we can relive our 2nd ed firepower dreams) or you can do so much more.

Author:	wargame_insomniac [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
My regular W40k opponent used Orks. Always gives my Space Wolves a real hard game, usually him coming out on top. We have good fun games- usually quite bloody as we both pile in. I can see them being very dangerous in a tournie.

Author:	Apocolocyntosis [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Orks can now shoot! - who would have thought it possible
Evil and Chaos wrote: I interviewed with GW a few years back to design 40k codexes … 40k is not a game I personally really enjoy playing, OT, but why did you apply to write books for a game you don't enjoy?

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