I would buy 4 boxes what about the pre order idea works in board games you have your website use paypal etc. i look at how well warlord games is going with plastics and wonder.

Do a kickstarter project. Put it on TTGN and TMP.

I second the kickstarter idea. Might even make me commit to a box - one of these plus an IG company from GW is a Steel Legion army, right...?

Aye, I think so.

Roughly the same amount of vehicles & infantry without bases from Exodus Wars would set you back more than £70.
Roughly the same amount of vehicles & infantry from GW would set you back more than £120.
Roughly the same amount of vehicles & infantry without bases from Dark Realm Miniatures would set you back more than £60.

So I think £30 is a pretty solid price point, especially considering that bases are included.


Yes.


Yes, the costs are higher there.


Yup, it's a whole 'nother step. You're not allowed any undercuts at all when working in plastic, of course, wheras you're allowed several milimetres when working in metal. That's a really big difference in sculpting requirements. Even flat sides that catch in the mould can be a problem.


Don't really know my way around TMP.


I'd have to sell at a reduced price to retailers of course, meaning I'd need to shift more like 150 sets before I broke even.


It'd certainly be possible, though I tend to think that having bases in the set adds value?


You can copyright a design, but you can't copyright an idea.

I assume you're refering to GW's tank designs here, but I haven't copied them.
What I have done, is work with similar ideas (APC that looks like a Bradley IFV, MBT that looks like a WWI tank with a turret on top -- here I actually drew inspiration from the tank in the 3rd Indiana Jones movie than anything else).

I've attached a side-by-side profile of a GW Russ Tank's tracks with my own MBT, by way of illustration. As you can see, they're different sizes/shapes. Any similarities are down to the fact that tanks have to have certain functional elements (which are not copywritable - for example see that chap who won a court case recently that allowed him to continue selling Star Wars Stormtrooper costumes... he won the case because the entire design was considered to be functional, rather than aesthetic... and that's a case where the costumes are identical* to the costumes seen in the films).


*Literally; he used the same fibreglass moulds that were used to create the costumes for the original trillogy films.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I don't want to turn your thread into a discussion of copyright law, but people have been successfully sued for altering the shape of coca cola bottles (but making them similar enough to evoke comparision), producing fragrances that were similar to, but slightly different (and advertised for use as), etc. Just changing the shape of something but still keeping reference may (and has) been construed as infringment.

The idea would be: a small scale tank for a war game...
The design would be: a small scale tank for a war game with open tracks, an angular turret, angular flanks, gun sponsons (something that didn't exist in that entirety until the Leman Russ design by GW).
The design is the actual drawing (with all it's specific angles and panel placements), however, if the 'knock off' evokes the same recognition in, lets say, the jury, or the judge then it would still be an infringement on the original design.

Nealhunt provides an excellent summation of the topic on the sticky in this sub forum on this very topic.

Heck if nothing else, if you attract attention it would be free publicity.

I still don't understand why it has to be in plastics, just make it in white metal, in fact most of the 6mm infantry is so small and undefined by the loss of detail with the printer and the caster you could probably sell all of it under your legal reasoning (if it is correct and if actually any current copyright holders even care about 6mm/Heroic sci fi minatures).

It does, but not at the expense of geting more minis instead. I can base minis on cereal packet card if i have to, but it's harder to make nice 6mm infantry from cereal packets

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

When I dream of plastics I see open topped pointy hover vehicles that clip together, spikey dudes and their hoverboard buddies. I'd need lots of those to make a workable army.

The "idea" can be much more complicated than that.

For example, my idea is for a British WWI style tank (with all that entails - a long tapered shape, a high front, exposed tracks, track tensioners near the front on the sides of the tank, sponsons with rounded fronts, hull cannon, a body section shorter than the tracks, etc.) and as these elements are drawn from a real historical tank they are not protectable - especially since the shapes and angles of the tank are 90% different (any commonality is down to the functional elements required in a tank, and the requirements of the plastics casting process (I'd prefer to sit the track tensioners higher and at an angle if possible to be more like the Mk1 tank, but that'd cause an undercut and you can't have undercuts in plastics).

The gun turret I have put on top doesn't look like a Russ type turret either (the shapes and angles of the turret are all different, as is the cannon too).


The reason is as I noted before: To buy such a set from Exodus Wars or DRM in white metal would cost ~£70, and that doesn't include getting any bases, or the modular option of building some of the artillery tanks as AA tanks instead.

If I can sell such a set - or something similar - for £30 due to it being in plastic, then that's an un-matched price point.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I would rather remove the bases from the top left quadrant and mirror image the top right quadrant so instead of 4 bases you get 12 dudes 3 turrets and 1 tank.

obviously the turrets could be changed for something else (maybe another tank or more dudes) but to me thats a no brainer (if the mold still works in that configuration that is)

Could even flip the bottom left quadrant and get 3 more tanks instead of 4 bases.

I make it £64.50 from Exodus Wars with 90 spare infantry and a spare artillery tank , but I agree that plastic is definately a more cost effective route.

My calculations are based on:

Guild Legionnaire Centuria
Quantity: 1
Regular Price £7.95 Item Total: £7.95

Guild Icharus SPAAG Turret
Quantity: 8
Regular Price £0.60 Item Total: £4.80

Guild Achilles MBT Troop
Quantity: 1
Regular Price £6.95 Item Total: £6.95

Guild Apollo SPA Battery
Quantity: 3
Regular Price £7.95 Item Total: £23.85

Guild Achilles MBT Squadron
Quantity: 1
Regular Price £20.95 Item Total: £20.95

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Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
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Didn't think of using the bitz ordering system. Anyways, bases make all the difference. ;-)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yeah - too true :p.

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Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/thewebb
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thenewtonwebb
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Any possibility of using the more sane German IP system to shield you from unwarranted/unbased attacks using the "but, duh, your honor, it makes me think of GW..." approach?

"But, duh, your honor, no one would buy it if it didn't make them think of GW..." (the warrant and base)

Guess that's why IP law exists.

Sorry for commenting at all, but the chutzpah displayed all around after a bit astounds.

I'm struggling to see how the tanks infringe on any of GW's IP - the tanks are clearly inspired by WWI British tanks and the others by other, existing real world designs. The fact that GW was also inspired by WWI British tanks, doesn't mean that no one else can be inspired by the same thing, as long as they're not obvious copies of GW products. From the details of all the IP lawsuits and take down notices that GW has issued, they all revolve around making products that either use GW specific iconography (Blood Angels emblem), direct copies (or use of exact images) or products that are made to fit specifically into their game system and no other. These models do not fulfill any of the above criteria; they do not use any GW iconography, they're not direct copies and they're designed to be used in multiple game systems.