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Eldar fleets: cruisers |
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Xavi
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers  Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:00 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)
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Hello there!
I was talking to an eldar dude the other day in the local GW store in Colchester (that happened to live at Essex university as well, heh, so there we go with a ready handled opponent  ) and I managed to get him interested in BFG ;p The thing is that after looking at the rules for the fleet (both of us) an chating with him again we were unsure about eldar attack craft. They seem highly effective but not necessary in the fleet. Basically eldar fleets are so well protected against ordinance (the holofields and speed) that most of the time you will not need to intercept enemy ordenance even if it hits you and using attack craft is effective but torps and pulsars seem more effective most of the time and cheaper. We discussed that because he wants a 1000 fleet starting fleet but was unsure of which capital ship to get, a Shadow or an Eclipse. It seems to me that the rest of the fleet is quite typical for eldars: loads of escorts (1 aconite sqdn, 2 hemlock sqdns, 2 nightshade sqdns). Dunno, any siggestions I can give him? Shadow or Eclipse?
Oh, the cruiser-less army is possible as well, but he seemed quite willing to have a capitol ship, at least for the looks, heh.
Cheers,
Xavi
PS: is the solaris as bad as I thought it is for the cost?
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Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.
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Shadow Hunter
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:19 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK
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Eldar!!!!!! 
Sorry, it's just that I seem to talk about Imperial more, and I play Eldar mostly (followed by Ork).
Okay, the Eclipse, in my opinion, is much better. But both have their advantages.
Eldar Bombers are awesome. Not only are they only destroyed on a 6 from turrets, but they attack the lowest armour value (as all bombers) and get to re-roll thier attacks. This is very important against ships with more than 1 turret. You should then get at least 1 attack.
Eldar fighters are also very good. a wave of 4 stands can protect your fleet from torpedoes and bombers effectively. With the ability to destroy other markers (torps/bombers etc) and stay on the table on a 4+, they could destroy countless waves. I have launched 4 fighter stands in the past, and have them destroy over 12 stands between them (over a numer of turns). Okay lucky rolling is required, but it happens.
A shadow cruiser has the ability to launch Eldar torps, which are very good. They also have a really strong WB, that always counts targets as closing. If you're lucky enough to get one locked on, you can cause devestation on opposing cruisers, with a good chance of crippling them from new.
How ever, if you dont judge your distances and attack and flee angles right, you can get caught. Eldar are fragile.
I have some details on Eldar fleets on the main page you can look at.
Under the battlgroups section, there is a sample fleet. Also, there is a summary of the Eldar (as well as the other races), under another subject.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:30 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9349
Location: Singapore
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You also have to remember that the Eldar do not get defensive turrets. Any enemy ordnance that gets close has free range on the Eldar. This makes the space elves very scared of enemy bombers who cant be avoided forever, are quite difficult to shoot down (ona 6) and can decimate an Eldar Cruiser or Void Stalker, with D6x attacks each, and criticals for half of them!
In most Eldar fleets, an Eclipse is taken to churn out fighters to neutralise the enemy bombers and torps, and Eldar bombers are rarely used.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Xavi
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:06 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)
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Err..for what we understood it is the other way around. We already discussed it (me and Ian) so it would be interesting to know if we are right:
- Eldar ships have holofields. This causes a right column ships when attacked with weapon bqteries. against *all* the other weapons and attacks they have a 2+ "ward save". That includes enemy torps and aircraft, so eldar ships are qite immune against enemy ordenance most of the time. In fact the eldar aircraft can simply ignore completely the enemy ordenance and head for your ships. The eldar vessels have already enough protection against those.
EDIT: well, after a clarification by "mccavage" in the BFG list I think we missed the point that eldar ships are not *that*invulnerable to enemy bombers after all, so the aircraft still seems a must there.
Well, considering the votes here and in the BFG list the Eclipse is considered the primary choice by a large margin (5-0) over the shadow. We get one capitol and loads of escorts. Damn, I will screw to beat that with imps.... love when I help create my own doom 
Cheers,
Xavi
_________________
Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.
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Shadow Hunter
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:14 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK
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You're both right.
With the holofield save, bombers rarely hit home. When they do though (and they will eventually) they hit hard.
I personally will churn out lots of bombers first. I will let these do thier nasty work. Then, if any ordnance looks threatning, I'll release a few fighters.
For the bombers I find waves of two stands to be fine for tackling escorts to cruisers. They also are harder to knock out as its two targets.
It all comes down, I guess, to your preferance on the use of Ordnance. And also your opponents preferance. If they use loads of bombers (I find Imperial and chaos can field more actual launch bays than the Eldar) then fighters may work better for you. If the numbers are about equal, send out the bombers and put him on the defence.
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Xavi
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:49 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)
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Ok, talked with Ian.
We came up with the following 1000 and 1500 points fleets. Let's see what you think about them
1000 points fleet:
- Prince
- Eclipse
- 3 Aconites
- 3 Hemlocks
- 2 Hemlocks
- 3 Nightshades
- 3 Nightshades
TOTAL: 985
We also thought about puting an aconite inside each of the Nightshade squadrons (so each would get 6 torps and WB = 30/8) droping the aconite squadron and taking 2 extra hemlocks with the saved points, probably making an extra 2 strong squadron; they don't get the benefits of shields or turrets, and they don't have WB to coordinate so being squadroned is not important for those, or at least that's what we came up with after the 4th beer in the bar. 
1500 fleet:
Prince
Eclipse
Shadow
Shadow
3 hemlock
3 hemlock
3 hemlock
(NOTE: if the comment I posted above holds, those 9 hemlocks might come out in 4 squadrons, not 3)
3 Nightshade + Aconite
3 Nightshade + Aconite
There we go. If we keep up with the game he will eventually get a void stalker, but that's what we had planned for his original investment (the 1000 points fleet). Lert's see what you think.
Cheers,
Xavi
PS: must tell him the address of this site so he can ask directly...
_________________
Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.
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Serps
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:53 am |
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:47 am
Posts: 388
Location: Sydney, Australia
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In the 1500pt fleet, I'd be looking at an Aurora to raise your survivability.
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Xavi
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:49 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)
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Shadow Hunter
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Post subject: Eldar fleets: cruisers Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:51 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK
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I dont usually mix my frigates and destroyers in the Eldar fleet.
The Aconites and Hellebores are marginally slower than the Nightshades and Hemloks. (When heading towards the sun I believe). 5cm maynot sound much, but it has made it difficult for me.
I find a squadron of Aconites very useful. 3 strong is all it needs, and I use them to co-ordinate an attack with a cruiser. The aconites ussually fire first, dropping the shields (WB 15 counting targets as closing are usually enough) leaving my cruisers or whatever to do the damage.
I think at 1500pts I'd rather have 2 Eclipse and 1 Shadow. Those attack craft are very useful. Especially against Imperials. Torps hitting the prow of an Imperial ship need 6's to cause damage. Bombers will use the lowest armour value (5+). Hitting with both at the same time will also mean the turrets can only shoot one type of ordnance down.
All in all, the lists aren't bad. They should give you a very good run for your money!!!
P.S. the void stalker is very good.
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