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Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=13856		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Hi

I am trying to get my Imperial Navy fleet finalised before I start my Ork ships. I need some help with fleet selection and tactics against a specific opponent.

I posted briefly a couple of weeks back about my first game of BFG for several years. I played 1750 points Imperial Navy against a combined Ork and Chaos fleet and got my butt kicked.

I made errors in fleet selection, picking ships that I had to hand rather than trying to select a coherent fleet. I picked a Retribution rather than an Emperor. I picked an Overlord rather than a Mars. I had a sole Dictator against 2 Chaos and 2 Ork carriers. I did nt pick any ships with Nova Cannons as was trying to play nice against 2 new opponents.

I made errors in fleet disposition and placement. I fielded my swords ahead of cruisers which minimised their torpedoe fire arcs. I wasted my Dauntless by sending it the long way round the warpfield. My Dictator ended up at the far end of battleline to Chaos/Ork cruisers, reducing the area that my fighters could offer protective cover. Due to my omission of Novacannons meant that the Ork and Chaos cruisers could bunch up and concentrate their bombers, attack craft and boarding torps.

I made errors in squadroning which meant that I could nt Reload Ordnance or Lock On when other cruisers were force ot Brace For Impact.

So all in all was a sobering reintroduction to BFG and hopefully having made so many basic errors I can learn from them and improve next time. I have been challenged to play BFG by the Chaos player, which is a good thing. The downside is my opponent. He has a reputation for army selection- some would call him a power gamer, the charitable would say that he picks points efficient armies with none of the less optimal choices.

In 1000 points he had picked 2 Devastations paied with 2 Carnages, screened by some Iconoclasts, with Chaos Space Marine crews for 2 of cruisers. He has realised how good attack craft can be and has come up with a new 1,000 points list with 1 Styx and 3 Devastations.

My question is what can I do to combat this fleet, both in terms of Fleet selection and also tactics? I could go ordnance heavy myself but would prefer not to. Should I even bother to play him if I know wont be a fun game?

All constructive criticism/advice appreciated.

Thanks very much

James
Author:  blackhorizon [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Against that fleet? Very low on batteries, too much ordnance, long range lances.

What could you do:
Nova Cannons: long range, supress enemy carriers.
Thus take a Mars for example. Add a Dominator. Take Cobra's to force enemy to launch some fighters.

Or:
Emperor + 2 Dominators + 1 Gothic + fleet admiral + re-roll.
Hang back with this fleet, he needs to come closer.

In all cases use your Nova Cannons first on his Styx, remember he needs to declare BFI before you roll the dice to see how much the Nova Cannon scatters (since you've been out of the loop: check the new rulebook (downloadable), the nova cannon is now a scatter weapon instead of a guess range weapon). You also now about the launch bay limits (you cannot have more ordnance in play as that there are launch bays available in the fleet).
If his carriers are on brace he cannot launch new ordnance.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Thanks BH

Will have to ponder the idea of Novacannons. I knew about the new scatter rule- thanks for explaining about how that works with BFI- that is little detail I had nt thought through so very useful.

I like the idea of Emperor for launch bays and still impressive batteries. Likewise I would normally go for Mars intead of Overlord, so so far I am liking your advice!!

I am not a fan of the Dominator. The Novacannon encourages you to hang back and then 30cm batteries are often out of range. I prefer the Tyrant over the Dominator. If yoiu take the Zealous upgrades you can have a Novacannon with strength 10 45cm weapon batteries, for just 215 points, 25 points more than Dominator.

For second cruiser can I use a Dauntless? Do 1 cruiser and 1 light cruiser count as 2 cruisers for the purposes of selecting Mars as battlecruiser? At 70 points less than Gothic a Dauntless would allow me to pick the upgraded Tyrant and still go fo your original suggestion of Emperor and Mars.

Dauntless would also give me a bit of mobility to protect my carriers rear arcs.

This starting to look like a fleet I could enjoy fielding. It strengthens my ordnance capability compared to my previous misguided selection, whilst not going for al out carrier fleet that my opponent has hinted he will choose. Also a pair of Novacannons will forec him toi spread out more whilst not going for the maxed out Novacannon option whic=h I would avoid.

Thanks again for the useful advice- got me thinking.

Cheers

James
Author:  blackhorizon [ Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Hey,

First: yes the Dauntless counts as a cruiser to take a battle cruiser or battleship.

Normally I'd advice a Dauntless as well, they're best used in pairs, but against an ordnance heavy fleet they are easy targets with only 1 turret. A squadron of Firestorm has 2 turrets each and when massed they can have 3 turrets for defence.
So you can take this one but it'll be a juicy bomber target.

Personally I dislike the Tyrant. You'll need to upgrade the batteries to make the range upgrade worthwhile. The Dominator is one of the better vessels in the IN arsenal in my opinion.
Author:  Reaver [ Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
I usually take a Mars, a Dominator and a Gothic against ordnance heavy Chaos fleets and just head straight for him. Nova cannon on the way in, launch only fighters from the Mars. Launch the Gothic's torps from about 60cm out to try and force the enemy to either launch fighters or manouver his fleet. Them straight in between them and Lock On. The Dom and Goth working together can cause a lot of damage this way.

Of course, you could also just hang back, and use fighters and your low range weapons to pick off any bombers that come close and just pound him him for 4 or 5 turns with Nova cannon.

Regards,
Reaver
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
In addition, I would probably go with a couple of small squadrons of Cobra. As a Chaos player, I find these very annoying, as they are fast and agile enough to hit anywhere and even a small torpedo salvo at point blank range can be devastating - especially against squadroned vessels where misses carry through to the next ship.

I would also probably not try to compete with attack craft. I would take a couple of Mars carriers and keep them at the back. Launch fighters one turn, Nova the next, etc. Keep churing out fighters with the only task of neutralising the enemy bombers and boarding craft.

Keep your Cruisers in a line, heading towards the Chaos line, and dont loose your nerve. Nothing scares a Chaos player like a long line of Imperial Cruisers, which have a much stronger head on attack than Chaos and fantastic front armour. Once the battle settles in the middle of the table, you loose this advantage, and it is often a good idea to pull back, regroup and reform the line for another pass, rather than exchanging broadsides where the Chaos ships have the edge.

Good luck.
Author:  blackhorizon [ Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
…not completely Cybershadow, the 6+ armour means nothing against the lance heavy Chaos fleet.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Very true, but as a Chaos player I never have enough Lances. I usually find that my fleets have a couple if lances, but they are not as common with Chaos (newer tech is difficult to find). A blind Chaos fleet will not have as many lances, and Chaos excel at strong, weapon battery broadsides.
Author:  blackhorizon [ Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Ofcourse, I myself employ Carnages specifically. But W_I will face a fleet with 1 Styx and 3 Devastations. That's launch bay heavy, followed up by 8 lances @ 60cm on the 6+ prow.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Ah, I missed that fleet list. He wont have much else at 1000 points with those four. I would still not try to compete with launch bays, and just neutralise bombers. In this case, I would probably go more Escort heavy against this list.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Quote: (CyberShadow @ 02 Nov. 2008, 09:26 )

Ah, I missed that fleet list. He wont have much else at 1000 points with those four. I would still not try to compete with launch bays, and just neutralise bombers. In this case, I would probably go more Escort heavy against this list.

Hi C/S

I see both Swords and Firestorms have 2 turrets. They might survive longer than Cobras. But not sure how much damage they would inflict.

Cheers

James
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
I like an emperor, a squadron of 3 dominators, a squadron of 3 lunar and 2-3 dauntless and a bunch of swords (hang on how many points is this? :) ). Operate in 4 groups. The Emperor pumps out fighters for support advancing alongside the dominators who knock out hopefully one enemy ship a turn (lethal against battleships with the bigger bases), the lunars can be in front of them and I always try to manoeuvre to get an awe inspiring 18 torp wave, and two ships targeted to each side :) The dauntless and cobra hang back then try to get on the enemy fleets tail, or go after lone cruisers. Plus I get to shoot down fighters with the torpedoes.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Exactly. Several small waves of torpedoes will draw out the fighters and force the Chaos fleet to decide to engage them, or leave them. Catching enemy in the crossfire is always a nice experience, too.
Author:  blackhorizon [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Imperial Navy vs Chaos
Don't forget that escorts are cannonfodder to the Chaos assault boats. (If turrets miss they kill an escort on a 2+....).
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