The models are basically the same ... I've got all my Epic stuff since SM1. They are all keepers, IMO.
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| Can Epic:40K be salvaged? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3951 |
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| Author: | Hedgehobbit [ Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
A wife-mandated closet cleaning lead me to find all my old Epic:40K, SM and TL* stuff. We had fun with E40K for awhile so I started looking for some of the E40K web pages I remember (like E41K for instance). I stopped playing E40K around the time of Epic Magazine #2 when it appeared the game was heading in a direction I wasn't interested in; which eventually lead to EA. I prefer E40K's big picture approach to things and was wondering if anyone else thought the game is worth keeping around. Many of the changes made in EA can be directly ported to E40K so there are plenty of options to choose from. I've got an old copy of the Epic Battle Bible to start with. I see E40K as the "quick-and-dirty" flavor of Epic. With SM/TL on the detail side, and EA in the middle. I'd like the game to be quicker to setup and play; focusing on maneuvering and decisive resolution. Even if it means it has to sacrafice some flavor. I'm curious what people thought were E40K's biggest failings. Things that really need to be addressed. I know there were plenty of rules changes in Firepower magazine, some which were superseeded then unsuperseeded. Is there anywhere where those rules related articles are available online? Or at least a general gist of what they included. I'm thinking of the hit allocation, anti-tank weapon, and WE orders changes mainly. Aaron *I'd like to at least try to play Titan Legions but I don't have any of the army specific boxed sets nor the White Dwarf issues where many army cards were included. Forex: I have no idea what a Chaos Card is. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
The models are basically the same ... I've got all my Epic stuff since SM1. They are all keepers, IMO.
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| Author: | Markconz [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Check out my site for an amendment sheet which contains all the Firepower changes... plus a few house rules which many others worldwide seem to have also used. There's a bunch of other stuff there you may find interesting such as E40k battle reports. http://au.geocities.com/markconz/epic.html I like E40k, I think I might be tempted to try it in EA's place for some big games. |
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| Author: | Warmaster Nice [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
...And if you want to play SM2 / TL the NetEpic rules are just about the same. They're available for free from the EpiCentre www.NetEpic.org Cheers!
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| Author: | vanvlak [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Oh, and a Chaos card is one of a set a number of which are dealt to the Chaos player at the start, according to his/her points and army selection, which give the troops to which they are assigned Chaos gifts and attributes e.g. bright colours, extra attacks ,etc. |
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| Author: | CyberShadow [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Yes, E40K is certainly worth keeping around. It gives a nice, fast paced game with minimum of fuss, and now that EA is here the rules will be 'stable' with no more updates. The minis are still usable in any other version and if it just a question of the various rules books then it is worth pulling out every now and again when you want a short game. |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
My only problem with Epic40k was the 'house' rule we had (they started it before I joined) that forbid targeting any formation, you had to attack the closest...regardless of weapon. I guess they were saying that you would attack the most threatening....but what it meant was that you could layer your troops, putting your toughest out front to protect your better troops, or having a screen of grunts to 'throw away' and get your CC troops in close. This made artillery mostly ineffective, and made for static games, in my opinion. I tried and tried to get them to drop that rule, but to no avail. So when E:A showed up, I lobbied for the switch just because of that reason, telling them that the new rules didnt have anything close to that in them. But that is just my personal experience with the system, without that particular house rule I'm sure it would have been different.  my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Well, as I usually say, "do what works for you" ... We used "Hybrid" rules based mostly on SM1 but we did like the E40K firepower system, and we did take a few things from SM2, etc., etc. ?And we certainly think E:A is Jervis's "best of show", but we still wouldn't play it "out of the box". And would work in what we like with our conglomeration. ? I'm betting if there is anything Epic you want to get rid of, the Boyz here will "scarf it up" ! ?  Other than that, as long as you and your gaming crew agree, play as you see fit ...  |
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| Author: | Hedgehobbit [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:05 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? | ||
Found the site. I remember some of those rules from the old Epic egroup. However, they didn't mention the changes that I've seen about allocating hits. Anyone remember what the final ruling was? One change I was thinking of making was to send Anti-tank shot through the Firepower table. So 5 AT shots versus normal vehicles would only roll 3 dice. 4 dice against WEs and 5 dice against immobile WEs. Aaron |
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| Author: | Markconz [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:21 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? | ||||
Allocating hits - Firepower hits closest target first. Anti-tank can choose to target vehicles and ignore all infantry if you wish. Then they added something about using screens etc, which seemedunnecessarily complicated and problematic to me, it was modified later on IIRC. We never incorporated it. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Hedgehobbit: I think EA is an improvement on E40K and, believe me, I was a staunch defender of E40K when it first came out. It has the same speed of play and tactical "realism" as E40K, but I believe it has more flavor - a great difference in the way different armies play. |
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| Author: | Hedgehobbit [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:57 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? | ||
I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. I'll conceed that EA has more flavor than E40K. However, assuming for the sake of argument, that you could clean up E40K so it plays significantly faster than EA; is that a worthy goal? Is there a need for a fast playing version of the Epic game family? Are the detachments listed in chapter 6.0 of the EA rules the only detachments you can pick (like the old SM/TL cards) or are they sample detachments? Can you replicate the "pick 10 of whatever you want" detachments of E40K? |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
>> However, assuming for the sake of argument, that you could clean up E40K so it plays significantly faster than EA; is that a worthy goal? Ah. I see. I suppose that's a matter of personal preference. I think E40K is definitely the best platform for going for a speed game. I admit that mechancially it was/is a bit faster than EA and it seemed to be better balanced with smaller armies that allow shorter games. I suspect you could probably get it down to under 2 hours for a game. >> Are the detachments listed in chapter 6.0 of the EA rules the only detachments you can pick (like the old SM/TL cards) or are they sample detachments? Each army list has set detachments. So, for a Codex Marine chapter, yes those are the only ones you can pick. They are more flexible than the SM/TL card system, as there are upgrades available to be added to the formation. But it's not as flexible as the E40K free choice. The overall design concept is to build many variant army lists rather than a single list with lots and lots of possible permutations. It makes the individual lists more flavorful and easier to balance because you are handling fewer options at a time. As an example, for the orks there is the main list in the rulebook, an official speed freeks list published in Fanatic, an official feral ork list in the Swordwind supplement and a Gargant Mob list for playtesting in the epic vault. Each list has its own distinct flavor while keeping enough choice for a player to tailor it within that concept. Did that answer your question? |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
I think that the freeform lists for Epic40k led to abuse by some people....for example, the Ork player in my group would buy huge amounts of Pulsa Rokkits and plaster everything with Blast Markers. He was/is annoyed that you cannot use that tactic in Epic:A. my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Gandalf the Grey [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Epic:40K be salvaged? |
Hey! A fellow Epic 40k fan! You don't see many of these around. . . Hedgehobbit, I've been a fan of Epic for many years until last couple. I have a website at www.system17.com that is constantly under construction and have a section dedicated to Epic 40k if you are interested. You'll find the link under Killer Classics on the left-hand side. I'm getting ready to revise that section so if you have any input please send it my way. Anyway, I was an old Adeptus Titanicus die-hard and was very slow to give it up to move on to Epic Space Marine and Titan Legions. Hell, if they had continued to produce rules for the new minis I may have never moved on. I like 2nd edition now, because it does have a lot of flavor. But dealing with so many paper counters, rulebooks, army cards, etc can get to be a major pain in the ass. But when Epic 40k came along, I was appauled as many probably were with the whole firepower system. I loved the minis (still think they are the best generation of Epic ever) and mostly bought them to use with the older systems. Finally I picked up a couple of Epic 40k box sets after the game died for almost nothing on Ebay (simple because at the time no one wanted them. I'm talking about $17. . .), and when I finally looked at the game as a whole, I was simply blown away. People complaign about the army lists being abused, but hey, you decide who you play with. In my opinion although you could spend years deciding on what to include in a 2000 point army, the fact you can make detachment with leftovers is still amazing to me today. How many of us have so much Epic junk you'll never use because you don't have enough to make a formation or detachment?? Plus the army book was so comprehensive unlike providing half-ass lists like for Epic Space Marine or just a few like Epic A (which I still think to this day hurts the game). You can just buy the Epic 40k box set and have a complete game for years without worrying about tracking down old supplements. Firepower mag wasn't bad, and it certainly wasn't necessary. The minis included in the box set were awesome as well. I was also lucky as one of the sellers included a ton of Eldar minis that I just fell in love with, and around that time I picked up a bunch of blisters for $1.50 with buy it now on Ebay. So it wasn't long before I had a ton of Epic 40k stuff. The only thing I don't like about Epic 40k are the counters for determining initiative. Just let me roll a freakin dice and add a modifier or something. I actually was in favor of going back to fixed detachments with upgrades when Epic A was in development, and still think it is probably the way to go, but I am glad to still have a game where I can make a detachment pretty much how I want. I think there is a lot of flavor in that, and that Epic 40k isn't anywhere near as bland as many people make it out to be. Loved the (geex I just forgot the name of them. . .) the cards you get for every 500 points. . . oh well. I loved that they expanded those too for each race. Didn't make enough if you asked me. I was dying for a new Epic A box set, and do think that the game would have created a lot more attention if they had done that. I mean, they put together one for Battle of Five Armies that is destined for a short life span. Epic 40k will probably be the last game of Epic I really enjoyed. Too little too late for Epic A, and having to wait till 2007 for some of the army lists is just absolute poo. You get just about everything you need in one set for Epic 40k, and I think that's amazing. |
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