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| Help with war engines in assaults... http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3948 |
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| Author: | Kaneda [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
hi everyone! i am new here. i won the epic 40k box set off of ebay and my friend and i have been giving it a try, but we are a little confused about war engines in assaults. since a war engine doesn't retreat if it loses an assault, does it immediately get into a firefight too? it seems a little odd if they do. also, in the next turn, if one of the war engines isn't destroyed, can it disengage the fight? the rulebooks doesn't specify if they can or can't, nor does it give the impression that the assault between two warlords will last until one or the other is dead. what did you guys do? btw great site. |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
We always fought it out to the death, ie until one side or the other was broken or dead. However, you can make a case for saying that the War Engine(WE) can end the turn within the Firefight range (15cm). I personally don't interpret the rules that way. my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Markconz [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
I believe a firefight will happen if you don't destroy a war engine in a close assault. I'm sure I can remember that happening in lots of games, especially with ork infantry attacking enemy war machines, they charge in and assault, do some damage and then get 'firefighted' away. Also IIRC cc and ff end as soon as one side 'wins'. The war engine just can't retreat, it still takes lots of blast markers and a hit for losing etc. |
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| Author: | Kaneda [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
thanks for the help! i think we are comfortable having the war engines fight it out to the death. we thought that there might be an instance where a warlord could disengage with another so that it could try and retreat and maybe another detachment could fire on it. but with the limited number of turns a war engine gets it doesn't seem likely that it will get away. it seems odd that if cc doesn't kill one of them, they get into a firefight, then back into cc. . . weird. . . are there any penalties if a war engine is caught from behind? lets say a reaver attacks a gargant from behind; does the gargant turn and face the reaver? does it fight with it's back turned? after the fight, does it stay in the direction it was originally facing? or does it face the direction of the cc? sorry for all the questions! it is all very confusing! everything else makes sense but the war engine rules seem to have gaps in them. . . |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
It depends on whether the Reaver attacked from range, FF range or in CC. Regardless, the WE doesn't change it's facing, the fire arcs of weapons still apply. Most of the CC weapons don't have fire arcs as I remember, so that part wouldnt matter. Hmmm, I dont remember if the fire arc matters in FF or not. Have to dig out my Epic40k books, I've got Epic:Armageddon on the brain right now.  my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Markconz [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
The main deal is that a close combat weapon on a war engine will automatically cause catastrophic damage (ie kill it) on another war engine if it wins the cc rsolution roll. ?I'm pretty sure they still have arcs so if you attack from the non-powerfist side you should be safer. Also if you attack another titan from the front it makes it much harder for it to run away - mind you if you are a dedicated close combat machine like a hierophant one round is all it takes anyway... Having titans duke it out to the death in one turn seems a little harsh, - no other units have to do that. A cc and a ff is still quite a lot of rolling. ?Think of the firefight being the effect of all the ranged weaponary blasting away at the same time the close combat is happening. BTW I have a list of official Epic40k amendments, and race specific fate cards, on my webpage as a wordfile you might want to check out. The warengine orders section is particularly important. ?See it here: http://au.geocities.com/markconz/epic.html |
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| Author: | Gandalf the Grey [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
I like Epic 40k too but I will admit the War Engine rules could use a little more defining. My friends and I wrestled with the facing of the War Engines in CC as well. We started playing back in AT and I think I remember in the Codex Titanicus rules you could only do certain things in certain positions, so that is what we grew up with. Anyway, we figured that a Titan getting jumped from behind by another Titan ought to be able to face it's opponent, and remain facing that way if it survived the fight. The general impression I get from the rulebooks would be that this isn't the case, that if a Gargant got jumped from behind, it would fight out it's CC normally without any penalties. In the FF afterward, only the weapons in it's arcs could be used. It is a little odd, but we don't see a lot of Titan vs Titan battles. If we do, they usually involve the Tyranids and they normally come straight down the table. Ah. . . I love those Hierophants. . . In the case where neither Titan doesn't have a CC weapon and the assault phase didn't kill one of them, then I move on the FF and they remain locked in combat into the next round. You'd think the FF would come first, but since FF only causes one hit, it really isn't a big deal. I am sure that last hit has been the killing blow before, but I don't remember the specifics. Try not to over complicate things. It is a different system, but the idea is smooth game play. BTW Markconz has an excellent Epic 40k site and I have a section too you might find interesting at http://www.knowltonsworld.com. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
Hi! Close combat weapons on titans have been superflous and little used since the days of SM1 and AT, that was the first and last time where I saw warlords rip each other apart in close combat on a regular basis. Since then, titans shoot, not melee. Primarch |
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| Author: | Markconz [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:56 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... | ||
Hmm, well daring to disagree a little  In Epic40k, if terrain was cluttered, and fire arcs restricted, then the close combat titans came into their own... especfially the bug ones which could scuttle over the terrain at high speed... A close combat weapon and a higher assault roll, meant instant death for the enemy titan. In one of the last games of E40k I played, one hierodule managed to destroy two reavers in close combat (though the reactor explosion when it got the second reaver nearly killed the hierodule as well!!). |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
hmm, but because a WE doesn't retreat, even if it loses a CC or FF, if you closed to CC then there wouldnt be any retreat. They would fight until death, or at least that is the way we always play it. In our games, it doesnt happen very often, except, like MC said, when facing the 'Nids. Mostly, whenever someone is crazy enought to charge with a titan, the opposing side panics and brings everything they have to shoot at it. Even the mighty Mega-Gargant couldnt make it across the table. my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with war engines in assaults... |
Well you all know my stand on Titan's with C/C weapons ... However, we played Titan vs. Titan in the early battles of the "old days" (AT1). And it resembled "Gunfight at the O.K. Corral" or ships of the line firing broadsides ... fun but not much tactics involved ! 
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